Covid 19: Sino global relations

I always pluck for the Made In England M12 Fred Perry polo rather than the usual M6300 (don’t know where that’s made).

It’s £15 more expensive.

But I agree with the public in general not wanting to do that.
I also think that once this is over quite a lot of people will realise that they actually have more than enough ‘stuff’ and with the impact on the economy may cut their cloth accordingly. Do they really need new things when the things that they have are absolutely fine? Hopefully this will be a catalyst for change, certainly has been for me and my immediate family.
 
Good luck with that.

The fact is China will only do what it wants to do. We may be able to persuade them to do the right thing - they are not our enemy. But we aren't in any position to force them to do anything. You seriously underestimate the extent to which our entire way of life is dependent upon out from China.
And likewise they are dependant on the western world to buy their shit as well, if anything this virus shows how much all countries are intertwined, I’m hoping this will change our economy so we aren’t dependant on them and we maybe get some manufacturing base back in this country.
 
And likewise they are dependant on the western world to buy their shit as well, if anything this virus shows how much all countries are intertwined, I’m hoping this will change our economy so we aren’t dependant on them and we maybe get some manufacturing base back in this country.
I have no issue with that. It was just this "lets make them do xyz" which I thought was entirely unrealistic. They have a huge advantage over the west when it comes to any kind of trade war: The west comprises democratic nations where the people have a voice and governments are accountable and if measures start to hurt, the people won't put up with it. China has no such obstacles to digging its heals in.
 
I also think that once this is over quite a lot of people will realise that they actually have more than enough ‘stuff’ and with the impact on the economy may cut their cloth accordingly. Do they really need new things when the things that they have are absolutely fine? Hopefully this will be a catalyst for change, certainly has been for me and my immediate family.
Said from the start of this I hope people start to live within their means, the car industry for me will be interesting, I wonder how many people are defaulting on lease cars, there could be 100 of thousands been repossessed, all going to auction as they can’t move them on, also new cars will take a hammering, over priced pieces of metal.
 
Lets not blame China for making things, its our own governments that wanted them to make things so we could have a consumer economy instead of an industrial one. The 80's saw the end of us making things. Think it would be better to work together to try and get the economy going again rather than a blame culture.
 
Have we got any dirt on Sawyers so that we can discredit him as well?

A former head of Britain’s spy agency, MI6, has accused China of concealing information about its coronavirus from the rest of the world.

Sir John Sawers, who ran MI6 between 2009 and 2014, was responding to Donald Trump’s decision to withhold US funding from the World Health Organisation, on the grounds it had “covered up” the spread of the Covid-19. He told the BBC it would be more appropriate to criticise Beijing. He said:

There is deep anger in America at what they see as having been inflicted on us all by China, and China is evading a good deal of responsibility for the origin of the virus, for failing to deal with it ... initially.

... Intelligence is about acquiring information which has been concealed from you by other states and other actors. Now, there was a brief period in December and January when the Chinese were indeed concealing this from the West.

Sawyers, who has also served as the UK’s permanent representative to the UN, said the pandemic would have an impact on international relations.

The trends that are under way anyway, the growing dependence on technology, the weakening of international bodies like the United Nations, the shift of economic power to Asia - I think these are all going to move forward more rapidly now as in the context of this pandemic.
How do you discredit a spy?

What did they cover up? Yeah, yeah - they covered it up so you don't know what they covered up...
 
I also think that once this is over quite a lot of people will realise that they actually have more than enough ‘stuff’ and with the impact on the economy may cut their cloth accordingly. Do they really need new things when the things that they have are absolutely fine? Hopefully this will be a catalyst for change, certainly has been for me and my immediate family.

Absolutely. Many have already woken up to this after the plastics in the sea/David Attenborough films.
Do we need to be constantly buying shower gel...all that plastic for a few squirts of gel when a bar of soap (minimal packaging) will suffice? Plastics everywhere in super markets. I'd happily buy stuff in paper packaging (or if they need to brand up...which they will of course, then invent a better biodegrade packaging). I've lived in about 3 t shirts and one pair of shorts during this lock down. I de-hoarded hugely since I separated and moved out.
I eat pretty sparingly - enough fruit and veg but never any junk crap (at least in the week). I make a soup (from a roast chicken carcass) with lots of veg and this will last me a week (packed with nutrition).
People are baking again...a chunk of banana cake, or flapjacks (my kids make them) after a run/work out is bliss. We're very adaptable to change us humans.
Not wanting to get too hippy about it however as I love tech and modern life but needs a bit of a seismic change in how we deliver and produce all this.
Said it before but one would hope a bunch of clever people (that aren't working on the virus) are collating some very important data from this global lockdown.
 
I've lived in about 3 t shirts and one pair of shorts during this lock down.

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Oh would you look at that, 50% more deaths in Wuhan now announced, than previously stated.

I wonder where the apologists are?
 

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