sir baconface
Well-Known Member
Should we do more to incentivise degrees in “economically and socially useful” subjects? What subjects would they be ? Or should we treat all topics as equal and view academic study as a valuable end in itself?
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Degree subjects
- Thread starter sir baconface
- Start date
Too many people get degrees and they lose their credibility as a measure of intelligence.
Universities are letting more and more in to make the additional money. This is added to by them then inflating scores so they can market a higher percentage of students achieving a first.
They should cap degrees to the top 10%
Universities are letting more and more in to make the additional money. This is added to by them then inflating scores so they can market a higher percentage of students achieving a first.
They should cap degrees to the top 10%
sir baconface
Well-Known Member
A supplementary question. Should there be minimum standards, e.g. in English? So many graduates can barely spell, punctuate or articulate clearly.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
It shouldn't be static IMO.Should we do more to incentivise degrees in “economically and socially useful” subjects? What subjects would they be ? Or should we treat all topics as equal and view academic study as a valuable end in itself?
For example, when we have an acute shortage of physics teachers, I see no issue in providing subsidies for physics degrees. But those subsidies might be withdrawn when we have a glut of physicists.
Ifwecouldjust.......
Well-Known Member
A supplementary question. Should there be minimum standards, e.g. in English? So many graduates can barely spell, punctuate or articulate clearly.
We. Have. Spellcheck.
A supplementary question. Should there be minimum standards, e.g. in English? So many graduates can barely spell, punctuate or articulate clearly.
Yes they're shud bee.
Kompany Car
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The problem is that science based subjects, which people often cite as being “useful” are particularly expensive to teach, with the fees going nowhere near covering the costs. The academic institutions offset them by using money from other courses where the costs are much lower e.g Art, history etc.
The hierarchy of the degrees and their usefulness is controlled by the jobs market, but I think we would be socially and culturally much poorer if only a small subset of subjects had all of the focus.
During my career in Engineering, I have worked with people from a variety of backgrounds and one that particularly stood out for me was a guy who had a degree in medieval history who somehow managed to get a job doing safety assurance. Whilst he did not fully appreciate the science, his ability to structure the evidence and present it in a clear and concise manner was second to none, acting as a perfect foil to the majority of the engineers who knew their subjects but struggle to articulate their concepts.
As regards degree standards, the slippery slope started when polytechnics, which were performing a useful function with HND level qualifications, became universities. It’s also the point where grade inflation started and subjects which were not traditionally degree level suddenly came into existence. When I did my undergraduate degree 6 people out of 80 got a first, now figures are around 25% and you hardly ever see anybody fail whereas in the late 80s it was quite common for people to fail or scrape through with a third.
The hierarchy of the degrees and their usefulness is controlled by the jobs market, but I think we would be socially and culturally much poorer if only a small subset of subjects had all of the focus.
During my career in Engineering, I have worked with people from a variety of backgrounds and one that particularly stood out for me was a guy who had a degree in medieval history who somehow managed to get a job doing safety assurance. Whilst he did not fully appreciate the science, his ability to structure the evidence and present it in a clear and concise manner was second to none, acting as a perfect foil to the majority of the engineers who knew their subjects but struggle to articulate their concepts.
As regards degree standards, the slippery slope started when polytechnics, which were performing a useful function with HND level qualifications, became universities. It’s also the point where grade inflation started and subjects which were not traditionally degree level suddenly came into existence. When I did my undergraduate degree 6 people out of 80 got a first, now figures are around 25% and you hardly ever see anybody fail whereas in the late 80s it was quite common for people to fail or scrape through with a third.
I'm With Stupid
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There's also the problem of determining what is actually going to be useful given that you're actually talking about someone choosing something for the next 40 years of their life. Obviously there are certain government run sectors like nursing and teaching where you can roughly make a prediction and work out which areas will be needed, but for the private sector a lot of jobs people do now wouldn't have been thought of 20 years ago. Who would have predicted that Google would be in need of linguists for example?
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese
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The value of ordinary degrees has been on the slide for more than 30 years. I think it started with the thatcher govt trying to get everyone over 16 into yts or further education to massage unemployment figures and hide the fact that there were no actual jobs or apprenticeships to be had by youngsters - or certainly less than before. I suppose you can be less cynical and say it's a good thing for social mobility that every bugger goes to some sort of tech college or polytechnic rebadged as a uni.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Ditto A-levels.The value of ordinary degrees has been on the slide for more than 30 years. I think it started with the thatcher govt trying to get everyone over 16 into yts or further education to massage unemployment figures and hide the fact that there were no actual jobs or apprenticeships to be had by youngsters - or certainly less than before. I suppose you can be less cynical and say it's a good thing for social mobility that every bugger goes to some sort of tech college or polytechnic rebadged as a uni.
Without meaning to blow my own trumpet, I was the only kid in a school of 2,000 to get straight A's in his A-levels. Now half the bloody school gets A grades.
Perhaps educational methods have improved since then (1979) but I refuse to believe that the improvement has been so great as to bring about this level of change. There's no doubt that exams have been "dumbed down" IMO.