Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 2)

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tolmie's hairdoo said:
mancity1 said:
tolmie's hairdoo said:
Manuel has clearly not seen enough of Dzeko to realise Negredo should be starting in the majority of games now, certainly last night.

Don't think the result would have been much different last night if Mancini had held the reigns.

But I must admit to being a little concerned that Pellegrini would not rectify the glaring mis-matches as the game played out. Mancini was dogmatic, but he was quick to change things if needs be.

I watched Bayern against Arsenal at the Emirates last season and it was pretty much the same, completely schooled 'em.

What he needs to do now is keep an unchanged team for a few weeks, barring injury, and allow his ideas to be implemented.

It's a worrying state of play when I feel we are one good win or one bad win away from whatever direction the season will go.

Under Mancini I think we would have been played off the park with us keeping the defensive side of our game a bit more structured but when you look purely on the goals they were individual and team errors and when the keeper stops the shots Joe let in the others around him grow in confidence.

I am concerned about VK though , he ran alot more than he usually did last night and he didn't need to , I guess it was his way of joining in the ring a ring a rosy set up of Bayern's.

That's not leadership in fact its the opposite of leadership.

Despite their credentials and experience players look to leaders for inspiration and it can come in many forms.

VK hasn't shown it in the past two games at all.

We could rebound from setbacks in games gone by , we haven't this season at all and haven't looked like it.

Imagine what pressure will fall on VK and some of the other players if we fall behind against Everton.

We will be at our worst moments since the early days of the Hughes era I would suggest only with a side this time who have experienced success at the club.

Its times like these when true leadership is shown and whether you leaders have it or not.


Good post, we do lack a backbone in times of crisis on the field. We have yet to learn the art of hanging tough, or even damage limitation.

It's another tactical discussion, but Robben's comments tell you all you need to do to beat this City team.

Defend right from the front UP TO THE GOALKEEPER. Same with Dortmund last year, MAKE US kick the ball long from the goalkeeper.

Time and again, it happened last night. It allows well disciplined teams, whatever level (See where I am going, Sunderland, Everton etc) to jam in the full backs.

How many times did Neuer kick out of his hands last night?

Actually that covers what my biggest issue was with Hart last night, not the poor shot stopping but the amount of times he put us under pressure by constantly kicking the ball long and losing us possession. All they had to do to win the ball was to press us to pass back to Joe and he would oblige by giving them the ball. One of his many rushed panicked clearances directly led to their 2nd goal.
 
BillyShears said:
Didsbury Dave said:
I will tell you what you are increasingly looking correct on: we have 4 squad fullbacks and no top drawer ones. Not that the fullbacks were hugely at fault last night: they kept getting isolated because of bayern's midfield dominance. But it's an area, both sides, where every player has a weakness.

I think they were massively culpable last night ... both of them. Provided fuck all going forwards and were both defensively overawed and panicked far too quickly.

Even more so than in Mancini's day, to play our current 4222 system the two full backs need to be complete. I'd seriously be considering Baines in January. Can play in CL too ... and is head and shoulders better than both Clichy and Kolarov. On the other side one of Zaba or Micah needs to be sacrificed to bring in a player with quality in his end product.

As I said to Lucky Toma - rightly or wrongly I think our squad will get gutted next summer with the only suriving players form the title winning team being Silva, Kompany, Yaya, and Aguero.


Can't agree, mate.

I thought it was the right decision to go with Richards last night, having seen his power trouble Bayern in pre-season.

Clichy was our best player in the opening half, trying to make his tackles higher up and at least try and drive forward with the ball.

They were both left brutally exposed by Pellegrini's crap selection further upfield.

The first goal stems because Richards fails to get close enough to Ribery, as a by-product of Navas failing to also get close enough to the decoy overlap.

Clichy was just horribly exposed by a two-man midfield and a lack of cover from Nasri, as he was too busy trying to fill the spaces left by Dzeko's reluctance to match Aguero's defending from the front.

A lot of pressure would have been taken off both full-backs if Negredo had started and we had gone with that extra man in midfield.

Wise after the event, but glaringly obvious during the game, which worries me what Pellegrini was watching.
 
crystal_mais said:
What I would like to see is:-
- Pellegrini to have given an absolute rocket to the team behind closed doors and basically warned them about their performance and future at this club
- Make some changes for the weekend
- I have tried to side with Dzeko but I've had enough now
- Sort his tactics out for this league especially away from home

The biggest issue with Mancini was he hung his players out to dry in the media, The likes of Ferguson never did it in public but more behind closed doors. I am hoping Pellegrini will do the same. Some of these players only turn up when they fancy it

I am hoping the DoF and Khaldoon are looking at shipping some of these buggers out

Sorry, but the one who needs the rocket is the manager himself. How could he get things so wrong and sit and watch for 90 minutes, occasionally looking at his watch, as though his main worry was about missing his bus home? Our defence has never looked so feeble since the Hughes days when we couldn't defend any high ball anywhere near our box. But even Hughes never expected to defend a high line while pressing 6 by 4.
 
BillyShears said:
Just for my own edification ... hands up those who would prefer Pellegrini to be sacked asap.

Seems a lot of people are saying it without wanting to say it so be good to see who's got the courage of their convictions.

I would like to see the back of him before the blue dippers game!
 
Swiftfoot said:
What I don't understand is why Pellegrini almost seems afraid of pissing his players off by making subs. It's impossible that he didn't see our midfield getting overrun yesterday, and its rather incredible how it took up to 70+ minutes for the formation change which should really have come at halftime, if not earlier. If he gets the starting formation wrong its still forgivable, but when he doesn't make the right changes when he knows he has to then there is definitely room for criticism there.

It's not like I'm expecting Pellegrini to get every single thing right but for a manager of his repute, capability and experience, he's clearly underperforming.

Ot he isn't. Under-performing that is. Surely I'm not the only one to consider that he is performing exactly to the level his CV suggests?
 
BillyShears said:
Just for my own edification ... hands up those who would prefer Pellegrini to be sacked asap.

Seems a lot of people are saying it without wanting to say it so be good to see who's got the courage of their convictions.

Not many people are saying he should be sacked, but a lot of people are extremely concerned that despite taking over a side that was runners up last season and had £100 million spent on it over the summer we have taken only one point from away games at Cardiff, Stoke and Villa and been humiliated at home to Munich in the CL. For me it would be very foolish to sack Pellegrini now, but can you or anyone say that they are happy with what they've seen from him so far?
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
BillyShears said:
Didsbury Dave said:
I will tell you what you are increasingly looking correct on: we have 4 squad fullbacks and no top drawer ones. Not that the fullbacks were hugely at fault last night: they kept getting isolated because of bayern's midfield dominance. But it's an area, both sides, where every player has a weakness.

I think they were massively culpable last night ... both of them. Provided fuck all going forwards and were both defensively overawed and panicked far too quickly.

Even more so than in Mancini's day, to play our current 4222 system the two full backs need to be complete. I'd seriously be considering Baines in January. Can play in CL too ... and is head and shoulders better than both Clichy and Kolarov. On the other side one of Zaba or Micah needs to be sacrificed to bring in a player with quality in his end product.

As I said to Lucky Toma - rightly or wrongly I think our squad will get gutted next summer with the only suriving players form the title winning team being Silva, Kompany, Yaya, and Aguero.


Can't agree, mate.

I thought it was the right decision to go with Richards last night, having seen his power trouble Bayern in pre-season.

Clichy was our best player in the opening half, trying to make his tackles higher up and at least try and drive forward with the ball.

They were both left brutally exposed by Pellegrini's crap selection further upfield.

The first goal stems because Richards fails to get close enough to Ribery, as a by-product of Navas failing to also get close enough to the decoy overlap.

Clichy was just horribly exposed by a two-man midfield and a lack of cover from Nasri, as he was too busy trying to fill the spaces left by Dzeko's reluctance to match Aguero's defending from the front.

A lot of pressure would have been taken off both full-backs if Negredo had started and we had gone with that extra man in midfield.

Wise after the event, but glaringly obvious during the game, which worries me what Pellegrini was watching.


The plan is 442
We have Mike Bassett managing our team and I could not believe what I was seeing last night,

We should not have set up that way against Bayern, they had a 5/6 man midfield which left Ferdy and Yaya totally outnumbered, this format only worked against United because they were also playing 442 and when they changed it with Cleverly they started to control the game but at 4-0 who cared.

But we did set up that way and it was clear right from the start that it did not work, but what did the manager do, nothing. We should have taken a forward off and strengthened midfield, and I am not talking from hindsight. I was screaming it right from the start.

Gary Neville was also constantly on about this and he summed it up perfectly when he said that if our manager was English he would be slated for being tactically naive and not up to the modern game.

If we continue to play 442 then I am not only worried about the CL campaign but more so about the prem. Other teams will have seen that last night and our managers inability to act and pack midfield against us, we could end up mid table.

This is not a kneejerk reaction this is a real concern, his first substitution from 442 was to change one of the front 2, it wasn’t the problem who the 2 were they could not get the ball.

Under Bobby we had 5 in mid field 433 or 451 and it worked for the last 3 years, it just needed pace adding. Not ripping up
 
BillyShears said:
Just for my own edification ... hands up those who would prefer Pellegrini to be sacked asap.

Seems a lot of people are saying it without wanting to say it so be good to see who's got the courage of their convictions.

No I wouldn't. There's no point, especially as we have no idea who would take over. But I'd like to know how many of those who wanted him in the first place are at all happy with him, and why. And it would be interesting to know how many would still have sacked Mancini now, and why.<br /><br />-- Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:13 pm --<br /><br />
BillyShears said:
Just for my own edification ... hands up those who would prefer Pellegrini to be sacked asap.

Seems a lot of people are saying it without wanting to say it so be good to see who's got the courage of their convictions.

No I wouldn't. There's no point, especially as we have no idea who would take over. But I'd like to know how many of those who wanted him in the first place are at all happy with him, and why. And it would be interesting to know how many would still have sacked Mancini now, and why.
 
For me the biggest error was coming out 2 days before the game and saying ''we'll attack Bayern''. Should have kept quiet, turned up on the night and just got on with it.

Also i said at HT, he must bring Negredo and Silva on. Not the usual 'i'll give it 10 minutes'' and see how it works bullshit, the changes should have come at HT.

We couldn't keep the ball in their half, Silva came on and calmed the game down and gave us the chance to go forward.

IF Bayern hadn't of scored early on (once again, like villa an individual error), and it was 0-0 at HT and he had have brought the above on it would have been interesting to see what the game would have panned out like.

That early goal deflated us, the ground and all our players.
 
Pellers needs to be given more time FFS!

If we've learned anything during our roller coaster history it's that it's not successful changing managers every 5 minutes. I truly feel there are so many Johnny-Come-Latelys on here.

Knee jerk, knee jerk, knee jerk

Things need to improve without a doubt but if the players have any pride in themselves, then last night showed them what they should be striving for.
 
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