Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[br62]

Pellegrini is an intelligent and thoughtful man and he knows exactly what he wants from his teams. He doesn't get involved in the game to the extent Mourinho does, which is down right disrespectful and idiotic at times. Sliding on his knees etc, he is the manager and not a player. Pellegrini is held in high regard by his colleagues, by players and by those that know him. The media in this country has not been massively negative about him, they have questioned his lack of experience in the league etc and they question his rotation claiming he hasn't realised this is such a tough league etc. That is not true. Being a good manager requires knowledge of football and of what you want from a team, and ability to manage players and situations. He is methodical, intelligent and has an engineering degree. Therefore he is a problem solver. Whilst not related to football, for me it is evidence that he will solve the issues that have arisen so far. Given time he will make City a fantastic side that can challenge both domestically and in Europe. Mourinho has a life cycle at a club, he buys as many players and he can wins a few trophies and then leaves the club behind to struggle with the factions he has created. He does take pressure off his players at times, as Mancini did at the end of the title winning season. But he also is critical and not afraid to step on toes, give it a couple of years and yet again he will leave Chelsea in a horrible state of affairs.

What Pellegrini will do is implement a philosophy and model that is exactly how Fergiescum conducted things at the swamp. We are City, this is how we play, this is what we are about. The model that Guardiola takes wherever he goes and the type of thing Txiki and Sorriano see as key. We can change players and the system and the philosophy will remain. We will have a squad that can play all the required parts to make the system work. He has proven that this works both on paper and in practice. He took a Malaga side far below our City team in terms of talent, to the brink of the semi finals. They knew their roles and had faith in the system. It was adapted home and away and it worked. He has better players here at City, when the players learn the system and mistakes are eradicated as I have mentioned before then it will work. It is the perfect football philosophy and he is a methodical man. He gives players time and keeps the faith. He motivates them and lets them know they will get an opportunity. If they mess up he offers support but if he continues to mess up he will give them a kick up the arse and tell them they need to go away and improve.

The key to management is to improve productivity and get results. Don't tell someone they are shit. Tell them that what they did was shit considering how much talent they have and how good they normally are. Give them a boost despite being negative. Everything I have seen from Pellegrini has been positive. The Bayern game was the only match we were completely destroyed in. Cant complain too much considering Barca were beaten 3-0 and 4-0 by that side. Comments from Baines after the Everton win alluded to the fact we were well rehearsed and playing to counter their weaknesses. It worked. And that is a tactically strong side under a brilliant young manager.

Things will improve. We will be in the mix for the title and we will qualify from our champions league group and who knows what could happen. Pellegrini is most certainly the man to take us to where we want to be.

An excellent post.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Spot on. Negredo in the 85th minute. What was that all about. Should have changed it on the hour IMO.

You're both badly wrong in my opinion. Going into that game with 4222 would have been the wrong thing to do. We needed to pack the midfield, that's what we did and that's why we were the better side for most of the game. Bayern was an illustration of what can happen when you're outnumbered in the midfield.

And the Negredo change was simple. There was no way we were going to go 2 up top unless we were chasing the game (I think we'd have done it on the hour if Sergio hadn't scored). And Aguero was simply outstanding, so there was no way he should be taken off. The reason we did on 85 minutes was simple: they were winning loads of freekicks and delivering them into the box. Negredo is a good defensive header, and also a good outlet ball if you're under the cosh.

the manager got both those things right I believe. The questionable sub was Kolorov.

I was puzzled by it too but it worked to be fair. They found far less joy down our left side with both Clichy and Kolarov on the pitch. They had to resort to throwing themselves to the ground at the slightest touch for free kicks centrally.

Not sure I agree with that mate. Granted, I only watched the game once and in a state of high tension, but I felt Kolorov didn't put a foot right. I was also worried that moving Yaya back deep at that point was the wrong thing too as he can't tackle and was shattered. I'd have preferred Milner to be honest.

Minor point, though.

 

[TGR]

Yep a good post I agree. However - for the sake of debate here is an alternative viewpoint:

I feel MP is doing well so far. Reasons being

1. We've played some very very high quality stuff going forward.
We have played very high quality stuff for a few years now - the first half of the title winning season being one period of note.

2. Top scorers in the division
We were top scorers in the Division when we won the title AND had the least goals conceded - they are not mutally exclusive.

3. Al but qualified from the CL group
The easiest group we will ever have to qualify from - without a doubt.

4. He seems to have turned Garcia, nasri and kolarov into better players.
Joe & Nasty have turned into complete duck eggs under his stewardship.

5. He is excellent at the media side of it. Doesn't get sucked in like RM always did. Doesn't 'blame' or scapegoat players in public. Doesn't given the sharks any sniff of blood.
Given - no argument or discussion on this one. A major improvement.

Yes we've dropped 7 really silly points but none of those could be directly attributed to MP. They were all either individual and/or team mistakes.
Far to many and to frequent defensive errors to put down to 'individual errors' There is something collectively wrong with our defence these days.

I think it's clear he believes in scoring being more important than clean sheets. I agree with his philosophy as 38 clean sheets would get us fuck all if they were all 0-0 draws. Goals win prizes not clean sheets.
Ask Kevin Keegan if this philosophy will win you trophies?

As we've had the best defensive record for 3 years now this re-prioritisation is something we as fans will simply have to adjust to.
During that time we collected major silverware. All great teams are built on a foundation of a rock solid defence.

When utd lost out to us on GD did they go mental and buy better defenders? Did they fuck they went out and bought more goals. It worked .
We won the title on GD BECAUSE we had conceded the LEAST number of goals!!!

Goals win prizes and our bizarre individual mistakes won't continue forever.

See points made above.

Practically every point you make refers to the 2011-12 title winning season. Those days had already gone and were well behind us before this manager took charge. You seem to have developed a convenient mental block about last season when we didn't score anything like enough goals, couldn't break down defensive teams and lost practically every key game. That's what he inherited.

Dismal,
As bobmcfc pointed out on here yesterday - you have to much emotional investment in the new manager to be able to have any reasoned, objective debate or discussion regarding him (shown below) and the vast majority of regular poster on here understand and recognise that. Therefore it is pointless to continue.

bobmcfc wrote:. I would just like you to acknowledge That if this was mancinis start to a campaign there would be very very few positives from you Dave. I supposed you have to ride that horse to the finish line now though.

Yes but you aren't being true to yourself are you ? I think pride is holding you back from the proper rant you want to have about our season so far. Are you not frustrated at all Dave ?

I do believe that bobmcfc also offered you some advice regarding 'therapy'? I do think this is sound advice and would urge you to seriously consider his advice and offer.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Yep a good post I agree. However - for the sake of debate here is an alternative viewpoint:


See points made above.

Practically every point you make refers to the 2011-12 title winning season. Those days had already gone and were well behind us before this manager took charge. You seem to have developed a convenient mental block about last season when we didn't score anything like enough goals, couldn't break down defensive teams and lost practically every key game. That's what he inherited.

Dismal,
As bobmcfc pointed out on here yesterday - you have to much emotional investment in the new manager to be able to have any reasoned, objective debate or discussion regarding him (shown below) and the vast majority of regular poster on here understand and recognise that. Therefore it is pointless to continue.

bobmcfc wrote:. I would just like you to acknowledge That if this was mancinis start to a campaign there would be very very few positives from you Dave. I supposed you have to ride that horse to the finish line now though.

Yes but you aren't being true to yourself are you ? I think pride is holding you back from the proper rant you want to have about our season so far. Are you not frustrated at all Dave ?

I do believe that bobmcfc also offered you some advice regarding 'therapy'? I do think this is sound advice and would urge you to seriously consider his advice and offer.

That's quite condescending 2bh, there has been a lot of positives despite some poor results, especially on sunday. We're not miles off where we were in the league last season, and we're doing better in the CL, albeit with a technically easier group but tougher conditions to play in (i.e. Moscow is a harder trip than Amsterdam especially with that pitch and the two teams aren't miles away from each other in ability), and if you want to be pedantic, we are also through in the Carling Cup which was an embarrassment last season.

Most importantly as seen from the players reaction on sunday they were devastated, they are genuinely up for it, they care and clearly believe in this. Last season they often look resigned or deflated, and if the players are on board then there's no reason why, especially with our next run of fixtures why we can't go on a run.

I see that Arsenal home game being a top of the table clash and the one where Arsenal's title hopes fade after we beat them.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

[qu
Dismal,
As bobmcfc pointed out on here yesterday - you have to much emotional investment in the new manager to be able to have any reasoned, objective debate or discussion regarding him (shown below) and the vast majority of regular poster on here understand and recognise that. Therefore it is pointless to continue.

bobmcfc wrote:. I would just like you to acknowledge That if this was mancinis start to a campaign there would be very very few positives from you Dave. I supposed you have to ride that horse to the finish line now though.

Yes but you aren't being true to yourself are you ? I think pride is holding you back from the proper rant you want to have about our season so far. Are you not frustrated at all Dave ?

I do believe that bobmcfc also offered you some advice regarding 'therapy'? I do think this is sound advice and would urge you to seriously consider his advice and offer.

Haha. The Binary World of the Daft Kid.

You;'re out of your depth son. Leave the football conversation to the grown ups. This thread has been good for a couple of days.

 

[crystal_mais]

Yep a good post I agree. However - for the sake of debate here is an alternative viewpoint:


See points made above.

Practically every point you make refers to the 2011-12 title winning season. Those days had already gone and were well behind us before this manager took charge. You seem to have developed a convenient mental block about last season when we didn't score anything like enough goals, couldn't break down defensive teams and lost practically every key game. That's what he inherited.

Dismal,
As bobmcfc pointed out on here yesterday - you have to much emotional investment in the new manager to be able to have any reasoned, objective debate or discussion regarding him (shown below) and the vast majority of regular poster on here understand and recognise that. Therefore it is pointless to continue.

bobmcfc wrote:. I would just like you to acknowledge That if this was mancinis start to a campaign there would be very very few positives from you Dave. I supposed you have to ride that horse to the finish line now though.

Yes but you aren't being true to yourself are you ? I think pride is holding you back from the proper rant you want to have about our season so far. Are you not frustrated at all Dave ?

I do believe that bobmcfc also offered you some advice regarding 'therapy'? I do think this is sound advice and would urge you to seriously consider his advice and offer.

Think you are being unfair to DD.

His view is shared by many. Things are looking positive yet there are some (like you) who just can't let go of Mancini.

You must be blinkered to not have seen the gradual decline in the quality of football over the last season and half. If Mourinho had been at Chelsea last year we would have def finished 3rd. That's the way things were going.

MP needs time to put things right that were starting to go wrong. Change mindsets etc.

Get behind them for fucks sake!!!

 

[chris85mcfc]

I am very positive from what I have seen so far this season. There have been a few bumps but that is expected when a new manager comes in as well as new players.

If it wasn't for the last minute cock-ups at both Villa and Chelsea we could be sat here with 18 points from 9 games and having only lost once at Cardiff.

This is the fine line in football and I expect us to have our fair share of luck at other points in the season where we get points when we perhaps didn't neccasarily deserve to.

 

[TGR]

Practically every point you make refers to the 2011-12 title winning season. Those days had already gone and were well behind us before this manager took charge. You seem to have developed a convenient mental block about last season when we didn't score anything like enough goals, couldn't break down defensive teams and lost practically every key game. That's what he inherited.

Dismal,
As bobmcfc pointed out on here yesterday - you have to much emotional investment in the new manager to be able to have any reasoned, objective debate or discussion regarding him (shown below) and the vast majority of regular poster on here understand and recognise that. Therefore it is pointless to continue.

bobmcfc wrote:. I would just like you to acknowledge That if this was mancinis start to a campaign there would be very very few positives from you Dave. I supposed you have to ride that horse to the finish line now though.

Yes but you aren't being true to yourself are you ? I think pride is holding you back from the proper rant you want to have about our season so far. Are you not frustrated at all Dave ?

I do believe that bobmcfc also offered you some advice regarding 'therapy'? I do think this is sound advice and would urge you to seriously consider his advice and offer.

Think you are being unfair to DD.

His view is shared by many. Things are looking positive yet there are some (like you) who just can't let go of Mancini.

You must be blinkered to lot have seen the gradual decline in the quality of football over the last season and half. If Mourinho had been at Chelsea last year we would have def finished 3rd. That's the way things were going.

MP needs time to out right things that were starting to go wrong. Change mindsets etc.

Get behind them for fucks sake!!!

I was behind them 45+ years ago (as was Dismal to be fair) - home away and Europe. I always have been and I always will be.
I just don't go with this blind faith, everythings new, shiny, wonderful & great crap when it is clear it isn't.
I like Pellegrini. I like his style, his approach and his footballing philosphy. I just can't understand
what the fuck he has done to best defence in Europe in 9 games! That's all.

 

[FantasyIreland]

Despite recent results I am really enjoying the season so far,our football is entertaining,the players are motivated and the feel good factor that,for me,was missing last year,is back.

We are so close to lift off I reckon,returning players and a settled defence will see to that as our attacking play cannot really be faulted,Pellegrini seems to be getting the very best out our forwards.

We will soon be sitting at the top of the tree,i have every faith.

 

[taconinja]

You're both badly wrong in my opinion. Going into that game with 4222 would have been the wrong thing to do. We needed to pack the midfield, that's what we did and that's why we were the better side for most of the game. Bayern was an illustration of what can happen when you're outnumbered in the midfield.

And the Negredo change was simple. There was no way we were going to go 2 up top unless we were chasing the game (I think we'd have done it on the hour if Sergio hadn't scored). And Aguero was simply outstanding, so there was no way he should be taken off. The reason we did on 85 minutes was simple: they were winning loads of freekicks and delivering them into the box. Negredo is a good defensive header, and also a good outlet ball if you're under the cosh.

the manager got both those things right I believe. The questionable sub was Kolorov.

I was puzzled by it too but it worked to be fair. They found far less joy down our left side with both Clichy and Kolarov on the pitch. They had to resort to throwing themselves to the ground at the slightest touch for free kicks centrally.

Not sure I agree with that mate. Granted, I only watched the game once and in a state of high tension, but I felt Kolorov didn't put a foot right. I was also worried that moving Yaya back deep at that point was the wrong thing too as he can't tackle and was shattered. I'd have preferred Milner to be honest.

Minor point, though.

I recall at one point Willian blew by Clichy and Kolarov stopped the attack well even drawing a foul and subsequent free kick from Willian. I recall it mostly because I had become rather frustrated by Clichy at that point. I actually think we would have seen Milner coming in for Nasri to try to completely shut down and insure the draw (not a complaint btw) if Clichy had been able to handle his business better on the flank.