Discuss Pellegrini...

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I see Samuel didn't think it convenient to mention what our second game was after losing to Chelsea in the league?

Oh, that's right?

...Not giving a practically full-strength Chelsea a fucking kick for 90 minutes in the FA Cup.

When we win, it's because we are expected to.

And when we don't, both our players and manager our incompetent.

As a club, we need to stop worrying about what people think, feed on their fear.
 
prestonibbo_mcfc said:
The cookie monster said:
prestonibbo_mcfc said:
We were fucking excellent against Chelsea. How can you blame Pellegrini for us not winning that game ?
Away we probably deserved a point,at home we deserved nothing...

Goals change games as they say, if we had scored 2 early excellent chances, then could have been a totally different game.
.

All if's & buts mate...I guess the away match we could of been three goals down at half time when we were only one,torres one & one and another time when he hit the woodwork....In the end as i said we should of got a point
At home though i thought we were pretty bad for a large part of the game and you couldnt argue chelsea wernt worthy winners..
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
I see Samuel didn't think it convenient to mention what our second game was after losing to Chelsea in the league?

Oh, that's right?

...Not giving a practically full-strength Chelsea a fucking kick for 90 minutes in the FA Cup.

When we win, it's because we are expected to.

And when we don't, both our players and manager our incompetent.

As a club, we need to stop worrying about what people think, feed on their fear.

As a club I think we don't give a shit what people think. Pellegrini's calm and cold exterior ensures that. Supporters who don't fancy Pellegrini are just latching onto Samuel's missive as it's another opportunity to further the idea that a manager who has already won a trophy and is still in the title race is somehow a two time loser who'll never be good enough. Like I said earlier, if we do win the league we'll need a carwash to hose down all the egg on some Bluemooner's faces. I know how that feels as I've been there once myself and there's a valuable lesson I learned about writing off a City team no matter what my feelings on the manager.
 
I think the point Samuel is making is that it would be wiser not to comment on the style of play of other clubs until you have beaten them and finished above them in the league. I agree, and that applies to all managers.
 
tolmie's hairdoo said:
I see Samuel didn't think it convenient to mention what our second game was after losing to Chelsea in the league?

Oh, that's right?

...Not giving a practically full-strength Chelsea a fucking kick for 90 minutes in the FA Cup.


When we win, it's because we are expected to.

And when we don't, both our players and manager our incompetent.

As a club, we need to stop worrying about what people think, feed on their fear.

But if he mentions that, he has to mention what happened in the next round vs Wigan...
Its better for Pellegrini if we arent talking about that.
 
BillyShears said:
tolmie's hairdoo said:
I see Samuel didn't think it convenient to mention what our second game was after losing to Chelsea in the league?

Oh, that's right?

...Not giving a practically full-strength Chelsea a fucking kick for 90 minutes in the FA Cup.

When we win, it's because we are expected to.

And when we don't, both our players and manager our incompetent.

As a club, we need to stop worrying about what people think, feed on their fear.

As a club I think we don't give a shit what people think. Pellegrini's calm and cold exterior ensures that. Supporters who don't fancy Pellegrini are just latching onto Samuel's missive as it's another opportunity to further the idea that a manager who has already won a trophy and is still in the title race is somehow a two time loser who'll never be good enough. Like I said earlier, if we do win the league we'll need a carwash to hose down all the egg on some Bluemooner's faces. I know how that feels as I've been there once myself and there's a valuable lesson I learned about writing off a City team no matter what my feelings on the manager.

Some would moan, no matter who was in charge. For some reason people need to blame when things don't go
according to plan. This is a problem in football, caused imo by clubs and managers etc not giving opponents
sporting credit when their team loses.
 
Wreckless Alec said:
I think the point Samuel is making is that it would be wiser not to comment on the style of play of other clubs until you have beaten them and finished above them in the league. I agree, and that applies to all managers.

No. There is no point to Samuels article other than to praise Mourinho and slate Pellegrini. I believe Manuel has an excellent grasp of the game. There are purists like Wenger who stick to their guns no matter what. I think Manuel is more than happy to win ugly if that is what is required. He just wants to aim for better than that. Mourinho's sides generally are able to do both too. He just has such a poor attitude and his teams normally harrass and bemoan decisions so much that they play the game ugly and unfairly. Luck does come into football. You can't win every game. But by trying to implement our style of play and trying to win games we will develop a mentality that will see us win most. As I said, despite the praise for Mourinho, he has struggled to get his team showing the same mentality in games they should win on paper. And his defensive tactics have meant whereas we won away at the swamp and Spurs, he drew. If you lose a point in the pursuit of three then it makes little difference if that same mentality gets you three as opposed to 1. I'm probably sounding like a broken record but it is crazy how we can still win the league despite how many mistakes we have made this season. Cardiff, Villa, Chelsea away and Liverpool away were all lost because of mistakes. We were winning two of those and drawing the other two. Individual mistakes aren't the managers fault. Vinny is generally faultless but he is human. The manager put a team out that was in contention in all four of those games. We have not been outplayed this season. For periods of games we have been the weaker side, but we have always managed to grow into games and dominate. The longer the players work with Pellegrini the more confidence they will have in their ability to see out games and eradicate mistakes.
 
TGR said:
strongbowholic said:
supercity88 said:
The media will grow to love the professionalism City show. They have Mourinho for their headlines. They have Liverpool for their love story and Pellegrini just gets on with the job. The media don't win games. Any team that gives in to media pressure is a weak one. The underdog would never win if the media were so effective. Chelsea have still been poor and lost games they should win despite the Mourinho "factor". They lost 3-1 in Paris to a PSG side that were average at best. And scraped through 2-0 at home playing Sam Allardyce Bolton bus football. It makes no difference whatsoever. Liverpool can talk all they want about doing it for the 96, for Gerrard for whatever the hell they want to do it for. It matters not. They can be motivated all they want, pumped up all they want it makes no difference they might still slip up.

Gerrard's talked about treating it like the CL final v Milan. The one where they were 3-0 down and won on pens. Would love him to take that mentality into the remaining games personally as that way they draw the rest of their games! Such utter bollocks being spouted around. Meanwhile we now literally have no pressure and nothing to lose. It's the way we like it and it's what can see us win the league. By the time anyone talks about us winning the league again we will have two home games left. We don't like to do things the easy way, we don't like to lead from the front and we don't like pressure. We do like being underdog and we do like surprising others!

They've got a lot of growing to do then :)

Here's Martin Samuel's take on Pellers (apols if already posted elsewhere):

If Manuel Pellegrini wanted to prove the inferior nature of Chelsea’s football, there was a perfect time to do it. February 3, 2014, between 8pm and 9.45pm. Manchester City versus Chelsea at the Etihad Stadium. Going into that fixture, City were two points behind leaders Arsenal, with a game in hand, and three points clear of third-placed Chelsea.
Win and they would have gone top, six points up on Chelsea and nine on Liverpool. Instead Pellegrini lost, 1-0, and his City team were outplayed. They have not been the same since.

In the weeks before the defeat, City had put six past Arsenal, five past Tottenham Hotspur, won at Bayern Munich and defeated West Ham United 9-0 on aggregate in the Capital One Cup semi-final. The first match after Chelsea was a goalless draw at Norwich City, since when Pellegrini has been well beaten by Barcelona in the Champions League, eliminated in the FA Cup by Wigan Athletic and lost another vital league match at Liverpool.

The Capital One Cup triumph and a humbling of Manchester United at Old Trafford cannot overcome the feeling that City have never quite recovered from the job Jose Mourinho did on them. They played the first half at Anfield on Sunday like a team fearing the worst.
So, for Pellegrini to claim a Chelsea title win would be bad for football is presumptuous indeed. Manchester City’s manager had 90 minutes to prove the mediocrity of Mourinho’s ways and failed miserably.

Indeed, the best he can hope for now is that Chelsea do what his team could not do by beating Liverpool away on April 27. This would put the title back in Manchester City’s hands. Without Mourinho’s cussed resistance, however unlovely, the prize is Liverpool’s all the way.
Pellegrini has a history with Mou-rinho — doesn’t everybody — but even allowing for this animosity, his words were a little intemperate.
Asked about the prospect of Chelsea nipping in to win the title, he said: ‘It would be very disappointing for football, for the fans, for everyone. I think the most attractive football, the most goals you can score, should be rewarded. Big teams must play as big teams.’
Yet what is bigger than Chelsea’s record against the elite this season? All six points from City, three from three against Liverpool, four from Manchester United, Arsenal and Tottenham Hotspur.

Only Everton, in the top eight, have beaten them — and Chelsea avenged that early-season 1-0 win later in the campaign at Stamford Bridge.
And, yes, winning beautifully should be the ultimate aim. Chelsea average 1.9 goals in the league this season, compared to Manchester City’s 2.6 and Liverpool’s 2.7. City have scored 20 goals more than Chelsea from two fewer games. Yet that is just one means of evaluation, and each will throw up a different winner.

Chelsea have lost one game against a top-eight side this season, City have lost three, Liverpool four. City were beaten home and away by Chelsea, who still have the potential to claim six points from Liverpool, too. What does this mean? Well, in Spain, if Manchester City and Chelsea finished level on points, Chelsea would win the league on head-to-head. La Liga considers this a fairer way of achieving separation than goal difference, when routs of inferiors can have a greater effect than the biggest games between title challengers. Having lost to Chelsea home and away, why should it matter that City put five past Fulham at home, when Chelsea only won 2-0? Chelsea play Norwich City on May 4 and probably will not emulate City’s 7-0 win on November 2. Yet surely, Chelsea 2 Manchester City 1, Manchester City 0 Chelsea 1, count for more? Not in the Premier League. It is an irony that Pellegrini now sets store by the accumulation of goals, having made his name in the one major European league where that doesn’t matter.

Even in England, goal difference has only been required as a title decider in the top division on six occasions, most recently in 2011-12 when Manchester City finished ahead of Manchester United, the first time a tiebreaker had been used in 23 years.
So, on most occasions, points are enough, meaning Pellegrini’s claim is wrong. League titles are not solely the preserve of the most prolific goalscorers.
The Premier League has completed 21 campaigns and eight have been won by teams who were not outright top of the goalscoring charts that season.
Most recently, in 2008-09, Manchester United (68) were outscored by second-placed Liverpool (77), while in 1997-98, Arsenal (68) scored fewer goals than both second-placed Manchester United (73) and fourth-placed Chelsea (71).
Manchester United were not top scorers for either of Sir Alex Ferguson’s first two titles, either, yet the most incredible feat, naturally, belongs to Mourinho.

His first Chelsea title was won scoring 15 goals fewer than Arsenal but earning 12 points more. He has a remarkable gift for strategy.
And we’re big boys over here. We can handle that. If you’ve got the most points after the last game has been played, you are the champions, and deserve it, whether the critics are snoring or not.
Scoring is the purpose of the game, and a well-worked goal its most arresting sight, yet that is not the only aspect of football worthy of consideration.
Mourinho does not have strikers to compare to those at Manchester City and Liverpool this season, so must find other ways to win. Watching him do this is still compelling, even if it doesn’t often produce matches as memorable as the one at Anfield on Sunday.
As manager of Real Madrid, Pellegrini set a points record for the season but finished runner-up to Barcelona.

His followers still talk proudly of this as if it made him something more than best loser.
Now, if Chelsea somehow muscle their way to the fore, no doubt Pellegrini will be expecting credit once more for all that lovely football.
Yet he had a chance to make an incontrovertible case two months ago, and failed. A big team turned up and did what they had to do.
Where the title is concerned anything beyond that, really, is just chatter.

We might not like it but he usually hits the nail on the head
and he has done yet again.
What he has written is very hard to argue against.
In the crucial games against both Chelsea and Liverpool when it really counted we have come away without a single point.
That is not how champions win titles.

+1.

what we need is a manager as sharp as a tack, younger fresher more with it than pellers. I think he's got his big jobs, us and Madrid, just a little too late in his career. a fine man but I'd rather have a pitbull, then again we know what our players do to anyone that crosses them.
 
supercity88 said:
gungho-tactics said:
de niro said:
he has been naïve but there lies the reason. he's new to our game. if he's as good as they say we'll be a different animal next year.

It is the same in every league. You always have to play with a balanced team, Pellegrini knows this very well. He's supposed to be an expert at coaching 4-2-2-2. Traditionally this formation has two defensive midfielders. Toure is no defensive midfielder, so why is he pretending to be one.

I like how you are so focussed on what Pellegrini did wrong you ignore the system Liverpool played. They played a diamond variation of a 4-4-2 that worked as a 4-3-3 at times and was very fluid. It was about Gerrard sat deeper as a one man defensive midfielder and Henderson and Coutinho further forward. Sterling was bursting in from wide positions and Sturridge and Suarez were allowed to move all over the front line. Their team was very much attacking. They didn't play 2 defensive midfielders. They could have played Lucas for more balance. Henderson is not a defensive midfielder in Liverpool's system. They pressed high up the pitch to win the ball back, as is our style. That means you are defending high up the pitch and on the front foot. Their system was exploited as we grew into the game and Silva got on the ball more and more. That coincided with Milner's movement wide, supporting Dzeko. Because they were pressing high up the pitch, when we had the ball further up the park the likes of Suarez, Coutinho, Sturridge and Sterling were too far forward and we managed to get 2 on 1 around the box several times. Just as we have been caught out this season, a quick ball forward to Aguero ended up with him turning Skrtel and us being in a great position to score. But we didn't take that chance. We actually handled their attacking play very well aside from their first goal. That was poor defending but their movement was good to create that chance. Otherwise their goals were because of poor marking and a mistake by Kompany. Our shape was actually very good.

The mistake I think Pellegrini made was in playing Navas rather than Milner. I think Navas is an excellent player but that he is often isolated and struggles to make an impact away from home. Milner took the game to Liverpool and exposed their vulnerability defensively - which is due to their attacking shape.

I'm not really interested in Liverpool to be honest.

I like to focus on my own team. This whole season I've been watching the back four being terrorized. Where is the protection ?
 
de niro said:
TGR said:
strongbowholic said:
They've got a lot of growing to do then :)

Here's Martin Samuel's take on Pellers (apols if already posted elsewhere):

We might not like it but he usually hits the nail on the head
and he has done yet again.
What he has written is very hard to argue against.
In the crucial games against both Chelsea and Liverpool when it really counted we have come away without a single point.
That is not how champions win titles.

+1.

what we need is a manager as sharp as a tack, younger fresher more with it than pellers. I think he's got his big jobs, us and Madrid, just a little too late in his career. a fine man but I'd rather have a pitbull, then again we know what our players do to anyone that crosses them.


The fact we gained 4 points from our first 18 points away from home is probably a more damming stat than the failure to get anything from Chelsea and home and Liverpool away.

Lets just see how the rest of the season pans out.
 
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