Discussion: Manuel Pellegrini 2015/16

[BillyShears]

I have great respect for your show of loyalty to our gaffer.

As a man, he's a diamond. He was just what we needed when he arrived. He brought the players back together and his handling of Yaya Toure during the dark time when his brother was dying... wow, what a man manager - to have such a superstar (and premadonna - I love him but its true) such a character and grown-ass man think of you as father figure and a great comfort.... Pellegrini's skills in that department are top-tier. He represents the club so well as a gentlemen, showing the world that the cowboy era rise to the top was transitioning into a more honourable, professional era in City's development. He handles the media well, never gives anything away.

Tactically, I've never believed in his defending. I always knew that when the fear was gone, we would have to defend better or we'd start getting turned over. We never did. Ever. We've never defended well under Pellegrini beyond the odd game here and there. Certain stats have managed to mask this problem, such as beating Liverpool to the title with our superior defense. also Joe Hart's golden gloves and goals conceded stats over Pellegrini's tenure... all of this does not paint the true picture of our fundamentally flawed defensive tactics. Pellegrini is to blame. I'm firmly of the belief that will ruin any young defender who tries to develop in our team, whilst Pellegrini is here. I hate to feel this way but I can't help it. It's that bad. A high line with zero pressure on the ball-carrier... aargh! I really don't want to go all the aspects as I've done it to death.

Pellgrini, all things considered, is a good manager. He's not better than Mancini, who is a great manager, but not even in that true top tier (in my opinion.) We've never had a world class manager to fit the world class profile and squad that we're trying to build. And personally, (especially with the imminent arrival of Pep,) I was so happy when he got an extension, not only to stave off the media speculation, but to reward the man financially for everything he's done for us!

He broke records, ladies and gentlemen. the best kind of records too :D December 2013-January 2014 was the greatest football this country has ever seen, in my opinion. Just wow. He brought a bit of romance back after Mancini (greatest City manager of all time, in my opinion) had sucked all that out with the dark ending to the season. He said, "we're here to score goals, because that's football," and it was awesome.

But he was never going to take us to that next level, where our owners, the club and by extension, us the fans, want to be. Never in a million years. He was a good manager, who grafted his arse off through his career and managed to earn himself a few chances at major honours, and he won some. He may yet win more. good for him. Fuck the pretty-boy prodigy for a second! (Psst, I'm sorry Pep, I'm a huge fanboy of yours.) Fuck the celebrity managers. How about a moment for Pellegrini and his life's achievement, because I think it deserves some credit.




Oh my word, that was not a real invite at the end haha, I can't even remember why I started this post.... I should stop writing. Oh shit, yeah...


Blueinsa, I totally respect your loyalty man, but he has to take a huge portion of blame for the last season and half. He's the gaffer. The book stops with him, at the end of the day.

The main thing which bothers me in your post is the characterisation that we can't defend or that Manuel's "way" is somehow flawed. It's become a tiresome refrain which you pretty much contradict yourself by pointing out all the different metrics which suggest that our defending isn't a huge issue in the premier league (Joe's gold glove awards, our goals conceded record in comparison to our competitors - that kind of stuff).

Mancini played %'s. Yes his team was defensively more solid because he wasn't committed to attacking in the way that Pellegrini is. As a supporter base we went from someone who had a negative mind set and set up to defend, to someone who set up to attack. There was always going to be those who prefer one way or the other, and it was also inevitable that those who prefer one way were always going to criticise the alternative approach as not being good enough. This happened during Mancini's tenure when I thought he was a clown, and it's happened during Pellegrini's tenure with half the Bobby lovers proclaiming Manuel to be a fraud.

Will be interesting to see how we react to Pep if his first season isn't one long victory parade in all competitions. He has many of the same perceived weaknesses that Manuel has and literally none of the caution Mancini had.

 

[vmsuhail]

Easily in the top 5 of EPL managers. No brainer really. And that is an honest answer as well ...

Tough call. Klopp, Wenger, Ranieri, Pochettino are better. Flores and Hiddink are arguably.

 

[bondsman]

The main thing which bothers me in your post is the characterisation that we can't defend or that Manuel's "way" is somehow flawed. It's become a tiresome refrain which you pretty much contradict yourself by pointing out all the different metrics which suggest that our defending isn't a huge issue in the premier league (Joe's gold glove awards, our goals conceded record in comparison to our competitors - that kind of stuff).

Mancini played %'s. Yes his team was defensively more solid because he wasn't committed to attacking in the way that Pellegrini is. As a supporter base we went from someone who had a negative mind set and set up to defend, to someone who set up to attack. There was always going to be those who prefer one way or the other, and it was also inevitable that those who prefer one way were always going to criticise the alternative approach as not being good enough. This happened during Mancini's tenure when I thought he was a clown, and it's happened during Pellegrini's tenure with half the Bobby lovers proclaiming Manuel to be a fraud.

Will be interesting to see how we react to Pep if his first season isn't one long victory parade in all competitions. He has many of the same perceived weaknesses that Manuel has and literally none of the caution Mancini had.

In all that though you have failed to address that last year performances were poor and we won nothing. If the same happens, and it's looking more likely by the game, again this year we win nothing then he's had two years achieving nowt and not improved on the pitch. Mancini got sacked the year we finished 2nd and got to an fa cup final which we probably only lost because he was sacked that morning. MP is still reliant on the big players who were the spine of mancinis team to win us games. He has been unable to build his 'own' team or find his own star. Also and I accept this is an opinion but the first half of the 2012 season was when we have played the best football ever. The results at that point were stunning and we crushed teams. We never reached those heights since. Partly because we don't have the players. Yaya silva nasri tevez dzeko balo and aguero of 4 years ago cannot be compared to what we have now in terms of attacking options.

 

[cibaman]

Its more the spread of goals over 21 games that matters the most.

15 of them have come in three games meaning a paltry 24 in 18 others ( almost half a season ) meaning unless you have a defence that doesn't concede you are going to drop many points throughout the course of a season with those numbers.

We have dropped 23 points in 21 games putting us on target for 72 points well below last years tally.

It's when you score them counts not how many and so far we failed to deliver what was expected and what we should be delivering.

I think that highlights the main issue with MP's style of management. His approach produces some great entertainment, high scoring victories. When everything is working well its a joy to watch. But if we're only 10% off we drop points. He doesn't address the defensive failings or try to outthink the opposition manager because he firmly believes that if we play our best attacking football we will win. And win well. But we rarely do the comfortable 2-0's when we're not quite at our best.

 

[flb]

The main thing which bothers me in your post is the characterisation that we can't defend or that Manuel's "way" is somehow flawed. It's become a tiresome refrain which you pretty much contradict yourself by pointing out all the different metrics which suggest that our defending isn't a huge issue in the premier league (Joe's gold glove awards, our goals conceded record in comparison to our competitors - that kind of stuff).

Mancini played %'s. Yes his team was defensively more solid because he wasn't committed to attacking in the way that Pellegrini is. As a supporter base we went from someone who had a negative mind set and set up to defend, to someone who set up to attack. There was always going to be those who prefer one way or the other, and it was also inevitable that those who prefer one way were always going to criticise the alternative approach as not being good enough. This happened during Mancini's tenure when I thought he was a clown, and it's happened during Pellegrini's tenure with half the Bobby lovers proclaiming Manuel to be a fraud.

Will be interesting to see how we react to Pep if his first season isn't one long victory parade in all competitions. He has many of the same perceived weaknesses that Manuel has and literally none of the caution Mancini had.

In Mancini's title winning season we scored 93 goals and conceded 29, In Pellegrini's title winning season we scored 102 goals and conceded 37.

Virtually identical in terms of goal difference.

There's a valid argument that the league was harder to win when Mancini was manager, Mancini made clear progression season on season and turned us into winners, apart from his last season where it went tits up for well documented reasons.

Manuel since the title winning season has regressed both in terms of goals scored and goals conceded, if you follow the trajectory for this season it looks like another regression, he hasn't taken us forward since we won the title- a tad strange for a so called tactical genius who all the players want to play for.

As far as Pep is concerned there without doubt will be a noticeable difference both in terms of setting up, commitment and playing up and coming young players.I'd expect vast improvement with players like Sterling, Mangala,KDB,Hart & Aguero.

Roll on June !

 

[YaYa's Left Peg]

High line, somewhere in between.
Play two in middle, maybe three, sometimes with two deep, other times with just one holding, and other times none!
Play two up front, rarely.
Play wingers and overlapping full-backs, crossing to one against often five or six defenders...often.
Shoot, but don't shoot mainly.
Win 50-50s....rarely.
Throw-in to a blue shirt.....rarely.
Score from corners.....rarely but better than last season.
Be unpredictable....you got to be joking.
Press and hassle out of possession....only when we feel like it, so rarely.
Tactics designed to counteract opposition...rarely.
Put in a shift for the 90...,.very rarely.
Stick with a winning team/formation.....hen's teeth.
Club moving forwards....off the pitch yes, on the pitch ....no.

Who's fault...???

 

[Dribble]

In all that though you have failed to address that last year performances were poor and we won nothing. If the same happens, and it's looking more likely by the game, again this year we win nothing then he's had two years achieving nowt and not improved on the pitch. Mancini got sacked the year we finished 2nd and got to an fa cup final which we probably only lost because he was sacked that morning. MP is still reliant on the big players who were the spine of mancinis team to win us games. He has been unable to build his 'own' team or find his own star. Also and I accept this is an opinion but the first half of the 2012 season was when we have played the best football ever. The results at that point were stunning and we crushed teams. We never reached those heights since. Partly because we don't have the players. Yaya silva nasri tevez dzeko balo and aguero of 4 years ago cannot be compared to what we have now in terms of attacking options.

This is the point that some simply fail to understand, football isn't about defending or attacking it's about both and on that score the best and most balanced football Manchester City have ever produced imo was the first half of the 2012-2013 season. As you alluded to, we utterly squashed our opposition whilst attacking, and crushed them defensively if they dared cross the halfway line to attack us.

It's the first time ever as a City fan that I've ever gone into games not expecting to lose. Can the same be said since Manuel has been here? Under Manuel our defence has been suspect from day one to the point where it's become shambolic on occasions. These observations are clearly there for all to see.

There wasn't much wrong with our squad when Manuel took over so what was needed was evolution not revolution. Our defensive solidity was needlessly eroded and for what, all out attack to replace it? I don't believe for one second that the aggressively vocal Mancini haters were that bothered about Manuel replacing Mancini when he did, for them it was more anyone but Mancini as they never wanted him here in the first place because at that time of Hughes sacking only Mourinho would have done.

The object of their desires was never going to come here, so they rounded upon Mancini before a ball had been kicked under his tenure as in their eyes this serial winner was beneath us which was funny as our previous 3 managers were Hughes, Sven and Beeny the fuckin Horse! Things that they excuse and protect Manuel for, they would have never done for Mancini. At the end of the day history has proven who has been the more effective manager for Manchester City in terms of advancing us from where we were at the beginning of their reigns to the end (if indeed Manuel is to be replaced come the end of the season).

Manuel still has the opportunity to cement his legacy and change our destiny and I bitterly hope he does so, but as it stands when someone asked me to describe what kind of team City are now, I honestly couldn't answer. Under Mancini, we had the lot in defence, creativity and attack, but as it stands right now after 3 years under Manuel, how would any of us describe City's team right now? I doubt even Manuel or the players know the answer to that one......

 

[BillyShears]

In Mancini's title winning season we scored 93 goals and conceded 29, In Pellegrini's title winning season we scored 102 goals and conceded 37.

Virtually identical in terms of goal difference.

There's a valid argument that the league was harder to win when Mancini was manager, Mancini made clear progression season on season and turned us into winners, apart from his last season where it went tits up for well documented reasons.

Manuel since the title winning season has regressed both in terms of goals scored and goals conceded, if you follow the trajectory for this season it looks like another regression, he hasn't taken us forward since we won the title- a tad strange for a so called tactical genius who all the players want to play for.

As far as Pep is concerned there without doubt will be a noticeable difference both in terms of setting up, commitment and playing up and coming young players.I'd expect vast improvement with players like Sterling, Mangala,KDB,Hart & Aguero.

Roll on June !

Progress isn't linear. If we win the league with less points than we finished last season with how's that regressing ?

There's no doubt the team has gone a bit stale this season and Pellegrini has made mistakes as all managers do. However with Pep coming it's moot so it's baffling why posters are still so desperate to beat Pellegrini and do him down in such personal and frankly idiotic and disingenuous terms.

 

[flb]

Progress isn't linear. If we win the league with less points than we finished last season with how's that regressing ?

There's no doubt the team has gone a bit stale this season and Pellegrini has made mistakes as all managers do. However with Pep coming it's moot so it's baffling why posters are still so desperate to beat Pellegrini and do him down in such personal and frankly idiotic and disingenuous terms.

Come off it mate you know how fans roll, I've listened to your PODS and you say the same as most on here about him, not doing enough, its down to the manager etc.

Granted , calling him a comfy slipper wearing Chilean Keegan **** is a tad harsh at times but he's simply not motivating the players to do what he wants them to do on a regular basis, every fan can see that with their own eyes.

 

[BillyShears]

Come off it mate you know how fans roll, I've listened to your PODS and you say the same as most on here about him, not doing enough, its down to the manager etc.

Granted , calling him a comfy slipper wearing Chilean Keegan **** is a tad harsh at times but he's simply not motivating the players to do what he wants them to do on a regular basis, every fan can see that with their own eyes.

I'm happy to discuss any sensible critique of the manager. Sadly it's not to be found in this thread and it certainly won't happen with people who demanded the board sack themselves and half the squad to retain Mancini and now believe Pellegrini is a fraud, a downgrade, the 10th best manager in the league etc.

EDIT

So I'm Clear my point is more about the loudest posters in this thread rather than Pellegrini. And im aware there's posters who wanted Mancini out and now want Pellegrini out. Some of them are my mates. But there's fuck all discussion to be had with you or Dribble Dribble or Hilts or bondsman or Shalum's Bellend or any of the other "give Bobby a chance" crew.