Donald Trump

[Uncle Wally One Ball]

Sounds like any seedy accusations will need to happen 2 weeks beforehand then, so early October. They're pinning everything on having a late surge like last time.

What happened to that woman that made the accusations against Biden earlier this year? Everything she said was fact checked and turned out to be bollocks. She has gone suspiciously quiet. I wouldnt be surprised if the Trumps have slipped her a lovely few quid, bought her a new house, new tits and teeth or something and are waiting to wheel her out after a load of coaching

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Nothing to see here, just a major American neofascist media personality choosing to devote a portion of his show to implicitly advocating for private citizen militias (in this case technically a child-militia) to maintain “order” in cities in tandem with militarised police.

No doubt the Trump fascists will very soon be publicly supporting militia “protection” of election polling stations and ballot collection/distribution points, in addition to “assisting” police.

Would that be similar to a Hitler Youth?

 

[SebastianBlue]

Would that be similar to a Hitler Youth?

I was trying to avoid the reference lest the “you lose because you invoked Hitler” brigade descend upon me...

But, although this is not yet anywhere near as structured and institutionalised, there are defintie parallels developing.

That said, I think this more leverages the “lone wolf” tradition inherent in American far right and white supremacy ”culture”, which in some ways is even more frightening and destructive.

The militias themselves, and Trump and co’s rhetoric deputising them, are also more in keeping with Putin’s “encourage and fund but do not institutionalise” strategy that allows him to direct “independent” actions by ”unaffiliated” entities against his enemies with supposed plausible deniability (it also allows him to dynamically scale operations in a way that is not possible with government-managed groups).

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I was trying to avoid the reference lest the “you lose because you invoked Hitler” brigade descend upon me...

But, although this is not yet anywhere near as structured and institutionalised, there are defintie parallels developing.

That said, I think this more leverages the “lone wolf” tradition inherent in American far right and white supremacy ”culture”, which in some ways is even more frightening and destructive.

The militias themselves, and Trump and co’s rhetoric deputising them, are also more in keeping with Putin’s “encourage and fund but do not institutionalise” strategy that allows him to direct “independent” actions by ”unaffiliated” entities against his enemies with supposed plausible deniability (it also allows him to dynamically scale operations in a way that is not possible with government-managed groups).

We live in scary times.
America is one fncked up place.
I fear you are in deep trouble.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

I was trying to avoid the reference lest the “you lose because you invoked Hitler” brigade descend upon me...

But, although this is not yet anywhere near as structured and institutionalised, there are defintie parallels developing.

That said, I think this more leverages the “lone wolf” tradition inherent in American far right and white supremacy ”culture”, which in some ways is even more frightening and destructive.

The militias themselves, and Trump and co’s rhetoric deputising them, are also more in keeping with Putin’s “encourage and fund but do not institutionalise” strategy that allows him to direct “independent” actions by ”unaffiliated” entities against his enemies with supposed plausible deniability (it also allows him to dynamically scale operations in a way that is not possible with government-managed groups).

People like Trump use third-parties to do their bidding, and therefore remove themselves from any culpability, so whilst it may on the surface appear to be a lone wolf attack, it isn't always the case. They will have been groomed in some way. Someone will have set them on their path.

You only have to look how well Roger Stone was aligned with groups such as the Proud Boys, who have been involved with a number of 'incidents' that have chimed perfectly with Trump's rhetoric.

 

[SebastianBlue]

We live in scary times.
America is one fncked up place.
I fear you are in deep trouble.

If we are being honest, mate, it’s not as though our country is in that *much* better a state. We’re just very fortunate we collectively took a much more reasonable path vis a vis guns, otherwise we’d likely be seeing a very similar level of internal violence (or threatened violence, anyway). There are some things that are unique to American culture that lead to where things are now, to be sure, but I think we would be kidding ourselves if we thought we don’t share some of the same idealogical and societal failings that allow for the rise of this sort of neofascism. And we have our own novel inadequacies developed over the centuries that lend to it, as well. Trump (and the sort like him) is loved by many in the UK, after all, as testified by various threads on here and elsewhere.

But I do agree that while I and our rational American brethren remain here, and trends to do not change, we are very much in trouble.

 

[SebastianBlue]

People like Trump use third-parties to do their bidding, and therefore remove themselves from any culpability, so whilst it may on the surface appear to be a lone wolf attack, it isn't always the case. They will have been groomed in some way. Someone will have set them on their path.

You only have to look how well Roger Stone was aligned with groups such as the Proud Boys, who have been involved with a number of 'incidents' that have chimed perfectly with Trump's rhetoric.

That is the “lone wolf” grooming tactic inherent to American far right and white supremacy culture to which I was referring.

“Lone wolf” in that context has always been a couched misnomer, as it always involves the (in)direct deputising or encouragement from some sort of authority, whether local KKK leader or, in this case, the national Grand Tremendous Wizard. Often times it was through coded language in speeches, manifestos, or personal conversations. Now it happens very often through social media engagement (Trump tweets, for example).

And, as I said, Trump and co’s rhetoric is designed to deputise entire far right militias *without* directly commanding them, which is straight from Putin’s current operations manual. It plays on both strategies, but particularly leverages the one that is deeply seated in the American far right.

Ironically, the Department of Homeland Security has a decent overview of the contradictory concept of “lone wolf” terrorism:

https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=727224

The Brookings Institution also have a fairly good review in the modern context:

How to hunt a lone wolf: Countering terrorists who act on their own | Brookings

Daniel Byman contextualizes the recent increase in lone wolf terrorism and provides recommendations for dealing with it.

www.brookings.edu

 

[bluethrunthru]

anyone actually surprised by this?

 

[SebastianBlue]

anyone actually surprised by this?

Certainly not me, @mancity2012_eamo, @Trevor Morley's Tache, @SWP's back, @FogBlueInSanFran, @Blue Hefner, @Bigga, or @mat, given our recent conversations. ;-)

 

[mat]

Well there's a shocker.

I bet of they raid his house he'll have a MAGA hat and membership card for the local QAnon group.

 

[mat]

O wouldn't be surprised is Trump calls him a good patriot in his nomination acceptance speech later.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

If we are being honest, mate, it’s not as though our country is in that *much* better a state. We’re just very fortunate we collectively took a much more reasonable path vis a vis guns, otherwise we’d likely be seeing a very similar level of internal violence (or threatened violence, anyway). There are some things that are unique to American culture that lead to where things are now, to be sure, but I think we would be kidding ourselves if we thought we don’t share some of the same idealogical and societal failings that allow for the rise of this sort of neofascism. And we have our own novel inadequacies developed over the centuries that lend to it, as well. Trump (and the sort like him) is loved by many in the UK, after all, as testified by various threads on here and elsewhere.

But I do agree that while I and our rational American brethren remain here, and trends to do not change, we are very much in trouble.

You are talking about the UK and yes you do have problems too, but I would not imagine this kind of neo-fascism being tolerated by such a high percentage of your population.

Don’t get into the whole Brexit debate either concerning what the public will or will not swallow.

I just don’t see the British public in general as being anywhere near as naive or as malleable. Perhaps I’m wrong.

I’m here in Ireland and we have our own well documented brand of nut jobs too and our own problems going forward, which incidentally are and will be tested by what is currently happening in Europe and the wider world.
But our percentage of support for these nut jobs is extremely low, as was borne out by the overwhelming support for the GFA both north and south of the border. Particularly here in the Republic.
Modern Ireland is forward thinking and has no desire to be dragged back into dark times by a handful of fanatics.

 

[SebastianBlue]

You are talking about the UK and yes you do have problems too, but I would not imagine this kind of neo-fascism being tolerated by such a high percentage of your population.

Don’t get into the whole Brexit debate either concerning what the public will or will not swallow.

I just don’t see the British public in general as being anywhere near as naive or as malleable. Perhaps I’m wrong.

I’m here in Ireland and we have our own well documented brand of nut jobs too and our own problems going forward, which incidentally are and will be tested by what is currently happening in Europe and the wider world.
But our percentage of support for these nut jobs is extremely low, as was borne out by the overwhelming support for the GFA both north and south of the border. Particularly here in the Republic.
Modern Ireland is forward thinking and has no desire to be dragged back into dark times by a handful of fanatics.

Yes, I don’t want to derail the thread or go down the path of the Brexit debate — there’s a reason I *only* moderate that thread when absolutely necessary now, without engagement in discussion.

I will just say I think people underestimate our susceptibility to this neofascist ideology and the extent to which it is has been adopted to various degrees in the UK.

And that is more a cautionary tale in light of what is happening here in America right now.

I am very invested in what is happening, even though I cannot vote and my ability to participate politically is significantly restricted, because I care about my neighbours, friends, and our rational, principled American brethren.

They deserve better than this chaos, division, and death wrought upon them.

I also have to live through the turmoil — literally, as our home is in the middle of Portland, Maine, a few blocks from City Hall and the Police HQ, so any demonstrations, political action, and/or police response has gone on right in front of our building — and thus what happens next directly impacts my family.

I am very much heartened to hear this has not yet taken hold in Ireland, though, and am glad to see you seem to be committed to making sure it doesn’t.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Yes, I don’t want to derail the thread or go down the path of the Brexit debate — there’s a reason I *only* moderate that thread when absolutely necessary now, without engagement in discussion.

I will just say I think people underestimate our susceptibility to this neofascist ideology and the extent to which it is has been adopted to various degrees in the UK.

And that is more a cautionary tale in light of what is happening here in America right now.

I am very invested in what is happening, even though I cannot vote and my ability to participate politically is significantly restricted, because I care about my neighbours, friends, and our rational, principled American brethren.

They deserve better than this chaos, division, and death wrought upon them.

I also have to live through the turmoil — literally, as our home is in the middle of Portland, Maine, a few blocks from City Hall and the Police HQ, so any demonstrations, political action, and/or police response has gone on right in front of our building — and thus what happens next directly impacts my family.

I am very much heartened to hear this has not yet taken hold in Ireland, though, and am glad to see you seem to be committed to making sure it doesn’t.

Make no mistake we will face difficulty particularly come the end of this year, depending on how the Tory government and the EU, resolve Brexit.
But certainly in the Republic and also increasingly on both sides of the community in the North, the vast majority of people want a forward thinking mutually beneficial solution and do not want to be dragged back into dark times, as a result of external decisions or influences beyond their own control.

Let’s just say, crazy is not running at 30-40% of the population or the electorate.

 

[blueinsa]

If we are being honest, mate, it’s not as though our country is in that *much* better a state. We’re just very fortunate we collectively took a much more reasonable path vis a vis guns, otherwise we’d likely be seeing a very similar level of internal violence (or threatened violence, anyway). There are some things that are unique to American culture that lead to where things are now, to be sure, but I think we would be kidding ourselves if we thought we don’t share some of the same idealogical and societal failings that allow for the rise of this sort of neofascism. And we have our own novel inadequacies developed over the centuries that lend to it, as well. Trump (and the sort like him) is loved by many in the UK, after all, as testified by various threads on here and elsewhere.

But I do agree that while I and our rational American brethren remain here, and trends to do not change, we are very much in trouble.

We kill each other with twitter.

 

[SebastianBlue]

We kill each other with twitter.

We’re very good at indirect harm.

 

[Ban-jani]

If we are being honest, mate, it’s not as though our country is in that *much* better a state. We’re just very fortunate we collectively took a much more reasonable path vis a vis guns, otherwise we’d likely be seeing a very similar level of internal violence (or threatened violence, anyway). There are some things that are unique to American culture that lead to where things are now, to be sure, but I think we would be kidding ourselves if we thought we don’t share some of the same idealogical and societal failings that allow for the rise of this sort of neofascism. And we have our own novel inadequacies developed over the centuries that lend to it, as well. Trump (and the sort like him) is loved by many in the UK, after all, as testified by various threads on here and elsewhere.

But I do agree that while I and our rational American brethren remain here, and trends to do not change, we are very much in trouble.

I’ve read some exaggerated waffle on here but this takes the lot.

The UK is miles away from America in political division and rioting. People are dying every single day there from police- civilian stand offs, a district of an entire city was taken over by anarchists and several died.

What’s happening here on that scale? And if I hear one my time that liberal Boris is anything like Trump I don’t know what I’ll do.

Hardly anyone in the UK likes Trump but for a few radicals on the right and this forum has what, 1/2 posters who like him and even then they just think he’s better than Clinton?

He’s the least popular politician by a mile, on this forum, since I’ve been posting on here since 2009.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I’ve read some exaggerated waffle on here but this takes the lot.

The UK is miles away from America in political division and rioting. People are dying every single day there from police- civilian stand offs, a district of an entire city was taken over by anarchists and several died.

What’s happening here on that scale? And if I hear one my time that liberal Boris is anything like Trump I don’t know what I’ll do.

Hardly anyone in the UK likes Trump but for a few radicals on the right and this forum has what, 1/2 posters who like him and even then they just think he’s better than Clinton?

He’s the least popular politician by a mile, on this forum, since I’ve been posting on here since 2009.

Think you’ve taken my post to the absolute extreme, mate, especially given the caveats I included... perhaps for argument’s sake?

 

[Ban-jani]

Think you’ve taken my post to the absolute extreme, mate, especially given the caveats I included... perhaps for argument’s sake?

I don’t think so, I think the majority of your post was hyperbole.

I do not post anything for the sake of making an argument.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I don’t think so, I think the majority of your post was hyperbole.

I do not post anything for the sake of making an argument.

Well, seeing as we are seemingly not likely to agree on the meaning of my post (which was my belief that the current state of our culture is not substantially better than America in terms of susceptibility to neofascist ideology, even if we don’t have the same sorts of violence based on differing beliefs on guns), and for the sake of not derailing the thread on a side comment, what say we acknowledge you think I was being hyperbolic and move on?