I posted in the FFP thread, but it might get lost there? Perfect response to any dippers with the 'bad istree' 10/10 Martin ================================== It is sad to see a great team like Aston Villa suffer. They won a European Cup before Chelsea and Manchester City knew where Europe was. Gofar67, Liverpool. There is nothing more irritating than bad history. You hear a lot of it in football. So here are the facts. Aston Villa won the European Cup in 1982, 11 years after the first European trophy won by Chelsea, the European Cup-Winners Cup in 1971, and 12 years behind Manchester City, who won the European Cup-Winners Cup in 1970. By 1982, Chelsea had played five seasons in Europe, starting with the Inter-Cities Fairs Cup in 1958. They would actually have been the first English team to enter Europe, had Football League secretary Alan Hardaker not pressurised the club into withdrawing from the European Cup in 1955. City, meanwhile, had played seven European seasons by the time Villa won the European Cup, their first in 1968. So far from Chelsea and City being newcomers to Europe, they were among this country’s first entrants and champions. Still, presumptuous errors like that can happen if all you know is modern football and all you listen to are stupid chants about clubs having no history. Mr Gofar probably doesn’t even realise that City and Chelsea both won European competitions before Liverpool lifted the UEFA Cup in 1973. Maybe he should ask his dad. Until next time.