Ederson - 2020/21 Performances

Plain Speaking

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I'm not ignoring anything.

You're failing terribly to argue we might do badly at a penalty shootout with Ederson in goal despite there being absolutely fuck all evidence.

If you just took a few minutes to think, you'd perhaps notice that our penalty taking record in normal games is night and day to our record in penalty shootouts, and realise that trying to link Ederson being slightly below average in normal penalties to a potential record in a shootout is beyond pointless.
How keepers performed in earlier shootouts that have now left the club is irrelevant.

Ederson's poor record, 13%, in saving penalties is the very relevant because that's what shootouts are all about.

His record of 13% is not "slightly below average" it's about a third of keeper's with a decent record, (Henderson 42%, Alisson 36%, Caballero 33%, Steffen 37%). He's saved one very poor penalty in a shootout.

I don't want to argue with you, I like Ederson, and I am not trying to bash him, but he has a weakness that could cost us. Hopefully our coaching staff will address the issue.

Overall Ederson is performing very well.
 

Plain Speaking

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I don’t think you can do anything in particular to make yourself a better penalty stopper. There’s far too many variables when facing somebody from the spot. I guess he does what all professional keepers do in regards to studying the opposition player who takes them before a game and tries to give himself some small advantage but then it’s out of his hands and relying on a poor penalty is the best bet of saving one.
Never in a million years would I ever accuse a goalkeeper of having a weakness in his game due to not saving many. I honestly find it bizarre that it could be a stick to beat any keeper. Even more so these days where you can’t move until the ball is struck.
You are entitled to your view but I hope our coaching team don't share your views.

In this age of statistics and scientific analysis, there are a plenty of techniques to improve keeper's penalty saving. Just as there are techniques for scoring penalties. Would you have the same attitude to our strikers who may regularly fail to score? Little things can make a difference.

Just because you wouldn't like to say a keeper has a weakness it doesn't mean he doesn't have one. ;-)
 

domalino

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How keepers performed in earlier shootouts that have now left the club is irrelevant.

Ederson's poor record, 13%, in saving penalties is the very relevant because that's what shootouts are all about.

His record of 13% is not "slightly below average" it's about a third of keeper's with a decent record, (Henderson 42%, Alisson 36%, Caballero 33%, Steffen 37%). He's saved one very poor penalty in a shootout.

I don't want to argue with you, I like Ederson, and I am not trying to bash him, but he has a weakness that could cost us. Hopefully our coaching staff will address the issue.

Overall Ederson is performing very well.

75% of penalties are scored, of the 25% that aren't, 17.5% are saved and 7.5% hit the woodwork or miss. Ederson's save percentage is the literally slightly below average. It's 13.33% and average would be 17.5%

If you think comparing Dean Henderson's record with a sample size of 14 senior penalties (7 of which are from the lower leagues) against Ederson's record of 45 penalties, and decide what average is, than that says a lot.

I think the biggest problem is you've clearly got no idea what % of penalties are saved, and you've just picked a few anecdotal examples to try and prove a wider point that's rubbish.

Ederson's biggest problem with penalties is that his defence has given away 21 in 3 1/2 seasons.
 
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Colin Bells Boots

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You are entitled to your view but I hope our coaching team don't share your views.

In this age of statistics and scientific analysis, there are a plenty of techniques to improve keeper's penalty saving. Just as there are techniques for scoring penalties. Would you have the same attitude to our strikers who may regularly fail to score? Little things can make a difference.

Just because you wouldn't like to say a keeper has a weakness it doesn't mean he doesn't have one. ;-)

I would imagine ( and sincerely hope ) that our coaching team are always looking at areas in which all our players can improve , especially if there is a perceived weakness in aspects of their performance.

I cannot for one minute believe that Pep being the person who is keen on detail would allow such things to escape his attention.

Penalties remain a bit of .a lottery imo despite it being possible to study the techniques adopted by players.
 

Plain Speaking

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75% of penalties are scored, of the 25% that aren't, 17.5% are saved and 7.5% hit the woodwork or miss. Ederson's save percentage is the literally slightly below average. It's 13.33% and average would be 17.5%

If you think comparing Dean Henderson's record with a sample size of 14 senior penalties (7 of which are from the lower leagues) against Ederson's record of 45 penalties, and decide what average is, than that says a lot.

I think the biggest problem is you've clearly got no idea what % of penalties are saved, and you've just picked a few anecdotal examples to try and prove a wider point that's rubbish.

Ederson's biggest problem with penalties is that his defence has given away 21 in 3 1/2 seasons.
All stats are publicly available and appear correct, you just don't like them, and seem to be trying to muddy the waters referring to "anecdotes".

The sample size with Henderson was 19 not 14.

Anyway going in circles here, I have made my point clearly enough the stats speak for themselves.
 

ninjamonkey

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I don’t think you can do anything in particular to make yourself a better penalty stopper. There’s far too many variables when facing somebody from the spot. I guess he does what all professional keepers do in regards to studying the opposition player who takes them before a game and tries to give himself some small advantage but then it’s out of his hands and relying on a poor penalty is the best bet of saving one.
Never in a million years would I ever accuse a goalkeeper of having a weakness in his game due to not saving many. I honestly find it bizarre that it could be a stick to beat any keeper. Even more so these days where you can’t move until the ball is struck.
Said something similar at the start of this discussion. It's like claiming an outfield player has a weakness at scoring 40 yard overhead kicks, they're not meant to save many and their ability to do so is entirely dependent on the quality of the penalty.


Its a game of chance, if the penalty is decent you have to guess and go before its struck to have any chance of saving it, if you wait and try and rely on reaction time you're banking on the penalty being poor otherwise you're getting nowhere near it.

For keepers that have great penalty saving records it's pretty much all psychological. You need luck at the start to save a few and get a reputation for it and then it's all about getting into the takers head and forcing them off their routine because regardless of how many you've saved previously, if the taker puts it in the corner the keepers not getting to it.
 

domalino

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All stats are publicly available and appear correct, you just don't like them, and seem to be trying to muddy the waters referring to "anecdotes".

The sample size with Henderson was 19 not 14.

Anyway going in circles here, I have made my point clearly enough the stats speak for themselves.

Yes I chose to ignore the attempt to inflate Hendersons numbers by using u21 football, because it's a tad embarrassing to count childrens football and compare it with Ederson in the PL and Champions League.

You're correct the stats are publicly available. 17% of penalties are saved over a sample size of over 100,000 since 2009.

Penalties: Ultimate guidelines - InStat
 

Saddleworth2

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27 Jan 2014
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How keepers performed in earlier shootouts that have now left the club is irrelevant.

Ederson's poor record, 13%, in saving penalties is the very relevant because that's what shootouts are all about.

His record of 13% is not "slightly below average" it's about a third of keeper's with a decent record, (Henderson 42%, Alisson 36%, Caballero 33%, Steffen 37%). He's saved one very poor penalty in a shootout.

I don't want to argue with you, I like Ederson, and I am not trying to bash him, but he has a weakness that could cost us. Hopefully our coaching staff will address the issue.

Overall Ederson is performing very well.
I think the point you make is a good one and I am a huge Eddie fan boy. I wonder why he is so poor. Does he commit too early, too late? Does he get enough input from coaches regarding the penalty taker. He is a good enough shot stopper so he should be better at penalties than he is.
 

MarsLlama

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I think this season we're seeing a more mature Ederson, entering into his prime years and sharpening up parts of his game. He rarely makes problems for himself anymore and, while still eccentric, is less impulsive than before. We're lucky to have one of the best goalkeepers in the world and certainly the most unique.
 

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