EDS future opportunities and progression?

completely agree. Imo angelino, bryan and barker all should have played first team football by now/ been on the bench more. I honestly think they would be really good for our team and be just as good as some other youngsters in the league - rashford ...... I'm hoping pep finally gives them a chance, because they aren't progressing at all right now stuck in the reserves

I worry they will have lost their edge. All 3 might have been totally out of their depth in which case the worst is that they would be exactly where they are now, in the reserves, but we would have a better idea about them. I recon at least one would have found himself a niche in the squad.
 
I worry they will have lost their edge. All 3 might have been totally out of their depth in which case the worst is that they would be exactly where they are now, in the reserves, but we would have a better idea about them. I recon at least one would have found himself a niche in the squad.

unless they get sufficient game time next year, all 3 need to go on loan. to teams that will play them and at a good enough level. Roberts at celtic is a good example of that. i think barker is the most talented- hopefully he can impress in pre season and then when he does get cup games, then league games.
 
A good example of why you don't let your family represent you as a youth player: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/25/chelseas-dominic-solanke-demands-50000-per-week/

'Chelsea's inability to bring through a home-grown player since John Terry has left them in a difficult position over the future of teenage striker Dominic Solanke, whose list of demands is understood to include first-team guarantees and a contract worth over £50,000-a-week.

Solanke is one of the most highly-rated young forwards in the country, but the 18-year-old’s Chelsea contract is due to expire in 12 months and talks over a new deal have hit an impasse.

The youngster’s stepfather has been handling negotiations on behalf of his son and stunned the Blues with an ambitious list of requirements that he has claimed need to be met for Solanke to sign a new deal.'
 
If we do trim the Youth teams and release some players, would it be possible to gain from their potential elsewhere?
My worry is we could release a youth player and he becomes the next world star worth daft money and is sold on to the likes of PSG for £50m and we wouldn't see any of that due to releasing him as a 15yr old or something.

Or can City legally stipulate a benefit in future sales?
 
If we do trim the Youth teams and release some players, would it be possible to gain from their potential elsewhere?
My worry is we could release a youth player and he becomes the next world star worth daft money and is sold on to the likes of PSG for £50m and we wouldn't see any of that due to releasing him as a 15yr old or something.

Or can City legally stipulate a benefit in future sales?
No, you could only put a sell on clause in when selling a player and if they're under-age then they don't have a professional contract. We would get a development fee only.

It's odds on that someone that we let go either this Summer or in future windows is going to prove us wrong but that's going to be down to the overall quality of the academy now. They have to be decent at the very least to be there in the first place.
 
A good example of why you don't let your family represent you as a youth player: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/25/chelseas-dominic-solanke-demands-50000-per-week/

'Chelsea's inability to bring through a home-grown player since John Terry has left them in a difficult position over the future of teenage striker Dominic Solanke, whose list of demands is understood to include first-team guarantees and a contract worth over £50,000-a-week.

Solanke is one of the most highly-rated young forwards in the country, but the 18-year-old’s Chelsea contract is due to expire in 12 months and talks over a new deal have hit an impasse.

The youngster’s stepfather has been handling negotiations on behalf of his son and stunned the Blues with an ambitious list of requirements that he has claimed need to be met for Solanke to sign a new deal.'
No problem with that at all. Perfectly sensible to do that if you're at Chelsea because otherwise you will be just another member of their loan army who they only keep for the potential future profit. If you don't get guarantees from Chelsea that you will be in the first team squad then you will quickly find yourself doing a Josh McEachran. Besides, they just gave Loftus Cheek a new £60k a week deal.
 
If we do trim the Youth teams and release some players, would it be possible to gain from their potential elsewhere?
My worry is we could release a youth player and he becomes the next world star worth daft money and is sold on to the likes of PSG for £50m and we wouldn't see any of that due to releasing him as a 15yr old or something.

Or can City legally stipulate a benefit in future sales?
As far as I know the standard development fee does increase as the player makes a certain number of senior appearances.

But I don't think it's huge money and don't think sell on clauses are a part of it.
 
It wasn't necessarily about Pellegrini being the current manager, it was about the effect he's apparently had. There's perception from some that there's now a backlog of talent hanging around wasting away in the EDS and so on due to not being used and that therefore there's a bit of a logjam ahead of the u16s. The u16s have scored over 100 goals this year and remained unbeaten and, to be frank, some parents felt like it's been a waste of their kids time as you don't learn anything winning 6/7/8/9-0 every week, even sometimes scoring 10. They were clearly too good for their level and should've been moved up, yet they couldn't because the u18s couldn't move up because none of the u21s moved up, or even out on loan, so it effectively blocked their route. Campbell scored near 60 goals for the u16s this year and didn't make a single u18s appearance, and he's seeing his mates like Leko at WBA, an England u16 too, score considerably less goals at youth level yet ending up on the 1st team bench for WBA and making his debut, despite Campbell being a brighter prospect. He's probably a little envious and cynical.

THAT'S what most parents are worried about. A mismanagement of potential talent of the pathways of the kids, which is a wider problem that directly links back to how MP hasn't used kids. Now if Pellegrini had used a few, testing them out like a good manager should, we might now already know about a few of the kids and could've either shipped them off on long term loans or even fully promoted them to the first team, thus clearing up the pathways of the younger, immensely talented generations. Instead we've got people like James Horsfield and Glendon still milling about in the EDS, and even the likes of Celina and Barker who are far, far too good for u21s football these days - yet they have to play in the EDS as they can't not have football, but they're blocking the most talented u18s from being promoted - an u18s team that won the league, which then blocks the likes of Campbell and Sancho and Dele-Bashiru from starting week in week out for the u18s, which they should.

I agree that now Pellegrini has gone it should be fine, but he has definitely created a problem in terms of the balance of the academy teams and hopefully Pep can rectify that quickly. It shouldn't effect us for the u15s/u14s, but there is a perception problem that needs to be undone, and you can't also blame some parents for being skeptical about Pep until he actually puts his cards on the table. I think its nonsense personally, but I get why some parents would be cautious. All we can hope for is that Pep takes some pretty drastic decisions, trusts some youth and handles the situation well. As ever, it's not as simple as it appears. There's far too many looking at without knowing the full *alleged* problem. It's not simply about Pellegrini not playing kids, its about the effect on the pathways of the players being blocked.

Campbell's parents fear their son not getting regular game time next season apparently, which sounds crazy, but its possible given the talent ahead of him. Apparently Nmecha is meant to be moving up to the EDS, thus freeing up space for Campbell in the u18s, but what if Ambrose/Faupala don't move on from the EDS due to the club not knowing what to do with them, which has happened over the last 24 months a lot? That'd mean Nmecha would require regular games if one of those two started for the EDS, thus hed drop to the u18s again as he's eligible, which'd leave Campbell where? On the bench? Naturally that'd be a disaster for him. THAT'S the effect MP has in the long term and that's the concern for many of the u16s as its the same in every position.
 
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I completely get the frustration from the younger lads (or more likely their parents). City cannot afford to have the situation twosips has described above. We can't allow a backlog or "clogging" of the system because of ineffective transition from academy to first team, or indeed a failure to be cut throat with those that aren't proving themselves right now.

I truly believe the situation will change under Pep, but the sensible approach would be to wait and see. Don't sign anything, just wait for Pep to come in, see what academy players are promoted to first team roles, see what he does in the transfer market, see who goes on loan and see what age group you might be able to progress to.

It's crucial at the 16-18year old age range to get players truly developing and winning with ease will not do that. The players need to be truly tested, out of their comfort zones in order to develop and make that step up. NevilleKneville makes the comparison between Barker and Sane. Both impressed in the youth league when Schalke played City, Barker was consistently a threat, Sane was a shining light in a Schalke team that completely relied on him to make things happen. One has been seen very little in the past 12 months, the other has made his first team debut and is now reportedly worth £30-40m and City are keen on him.

There's nothing to say Barker would be at the same level, but it shows how crucial it is for there to be a transition from EDS to first team. Instead, Barker is one of those in no mans land - with little experience, but still young enough to make it at City. We need to handle things much better. Getting Roberts out on a long term loan is a good way of clearing the backlog too. He's still a City player but is getting regular game time and developing playing senior football. That allows the academy to be refined and younger players step up.
 
Had things continued from last season,with the same manager,then id definitely be saying 'no we cant blame him'.

But,things have changed,and very much for the better! At 16.....to not allow yourself the opportunity of a lifetime,working under the best in the business,is plain daft and incredibly short sighted IMO.

I guess.....but a more lucrative shiny contract in North London would appear the most important criteria in this case.

At this point in time though mate nothing has changed. We will have to wait at least a season to see how and to what extent Pep integrates the youth. I mean (and I take this with a pinch of salt because it's just gossip) today we have been linked with Townsend when we already have a similar player on our books in Roberts. If, and it's a big if, we sign him then we are fucking stupid and it only goes to back up fears and criticism aimed at us.
 

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