EDS future opportunities and progression?

Surely this all starts at the top?
Next season there is the real possibility of a group of senior players sitting tight because their contracts are so lucrative that no way would they be able to get those sorts of wages elsewhere.
The likes of Kolarov, Bony, Yaya, Nasri, Willy, Fernando, Delph and maybe even Zab and Mangala could find themselves marginalised from regular first team starts but being played in Cup games and as cover for the in-favour lads just to keep them fit and "in the shop window".
Some will have gone by then but quite a few will remain IMO.

We have to decide what we really want. Will we be moaning if we get dumped out of domestic cups resting Sergio, Kev and others to allow Barker, the Garcias and Tosin to gain some experience?
We did similar in LC losses to Villa and at WBA plus the Chelsea FAC tie last season and lots of folk complained bitterly that we tossed away the chance to win silverware for a perceived greater chance to go for a greater prize later.

One thing's for sure and that we will have to be more proactive in our squad management. There has been a lot of movement in the appointment and reassignment of Academy Management and Coaching personnel recently and this is one problem that hopefully is a the top of the list to rectify before any more damage is done.
 
Taking my blue tinted specs off, if I was a player and I was looking at how City have integrated youth players as opposed to say Southampton, Spurs, maybe Arsenal and even United I'd be thinking should I take a step down to take a step up. Pogba is a prime example; wasn't given chances at United left and became a legend. I have no idea what is going through Campbell's mind but if he's thinking similar - and with Pep now manager things could radically change at city - then can we really blame him?
Yes, we can really blame him. Campbell is just 16 and a long way short of the 1st team, Pogba was 19 when he gave up on United so there's no comparison really.
 
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I completely get the frustration from the younger lads (or more likely their parents). City cannot afford to have the situation twosips has described above. We can't allow a backlog or "clogging" of the system because of ineffective transition from academy to first team, or indeed a failure to be cut throat with those that aren't proving themselves right now.

I truly believe the situation will change under Pep, but the sensible approach would be to wait and see. Don't sign anything, just wait for Pep to come in, see what academy players are promoted to first team roles, see what he does in the transfer market, see who goes on loan and see what age group you might be able to progress to.

It's crucial at the 16-18year old age range to get players truly developing and winning with ease will not do that. The players need to be truly tested, out of their comfort zones in order to develop and make that step up. NevilleKneville makes the comparison between Barker and Sane. Both impressed in the youth league when Schalke played City, Barker was consistently a threat, Sane was a shining light in a Schalke team that completely relied on him to make things happen. One has been seen very little in the past 12 months, the other has made his first team debut and is now reportedly worth £30-40m and City are keen on him.

There's nothing to say Barker would be at the same level, but it shows how crucial it is for there to be a transition from EDS to first team. Instead, Barker is one of those in no mans land - with little experience, but still young enough to make it at City. We need to handle things much better. Getting Roberts out on a long term loan is a good way of clearing the backlog too. He's still a City player but is getting regular game time and developing playing senior football. That allows the academy to be refined and younger players step up.

Bang on the money.

Maffeo has gone out on loan, Angelino went out on loan, Roberts went out on loan which is ideal.

I think it is time the likes of A. Garcia, M. Garcia, and Faupala now need to see some Senior football otherwise I fear they will begin to stagnate at U21 level, causing the lower levels to also slow down.

Barker especially I fear is at a real crossroads in his career, he desperately needs to be getting involved in some senior football on a regular basis now.

The tricky thing for us though is finding the right clubs for these players. Clubs who want them, who will play them regularly and who will develop them right. I think Roberts has absolutely landed on his feet with Celtic. That is the ideal club to develop at, under Rodgers who has a good record with youth and he seemed to be getting a fair bit of playing time last season.
 
Did I read that the u18's are being treated as an u17's team next year. I assume this is to appease both players and parents in the u16's and to let them know that the lads will be given plenty of game time. It's well known throughout academy football that this age group at city is special, our golden generation if you like, and I would hope and guess that city will be pulling out all the stops in order to sign these lads to scholarship deals.
As has been previously mentioned the eds certainly needs thinning out with players either moved on or loaned out, therefor I found it very strange that we gave 1 year extensions to both Horsfield and Plummer at the end of last season. There are players in the 18's and some stepping up to the eds this season who are comfortably ahead of these two. Another case of blocking the pathway.
 
It wasn't necessarily about Pellegrini being the current manager, it was about the effect he's apparently had. There's perception from some that there's now a backlog of talent hanging around wasting away in the EDS and so on due to not being used and that therefore there's a bit of a logjam ahead of the u16s. The u16s have scored over 100 goals this year and remained unbeaten and, to be frank, some parents felt like it's been a waste of their kids time as you don't learn anything winning 6/7/8/9-0 every week, even sometimes scoring 10. They were clearly too good for their level and should've been moved up, yet they couldn't because the u18s couldn't move up because none of the u21s moved up, or even out on loan, so it effectively blocked their route. Campbell scored near 60 goals for the u16s this year and didn't make a single u18s appearance, and he's seeing his mates like Leko at WBA, an England u16 too, score considerably less goals at youth level yet ending up on the 1st team bench for WBA and making his debut, despite Campbell being a brighter prospect. He's probably a little envious and cynical.

THAT'S what most parents are worried about. A mismanagement of potential talent of the pathways of the kids, which is a wider problem that directly links back to how MP hasn't used kids. Now if Pellegrini had used a few, testing them out like a good manager should, we might now already know about a few of the kids and could've either shipped them off on long term loans or even fully promoted them to the first team, thus clearing up the pathways of the younger, immensely talented generations. Instead we've got people like James Horsfield and Glendon still milling about in the EDS, and even the likes of Celina and Barker who are far, far too good for u21s football these days - yet they have to play in the EDS as they can't not have football, but they're blocking the most talented u18s from being promoted - an u18s team that won the league, which then blocks the likes of Campbell and Sancho and Dele-Bashiru from starting week in week out for the u18s, which they should.

I agree that now Pellegrini has gone it should be fine, but he has definitely created a problem in terms of the balance of the academy teams and hopefully Pep can rectify that quickly. It shouldn't effect us for the u15s/u14s, but there is a perception problem that needs to be undone, and you can't also blame some parents for being skeptical about Pep until he actually puts his cards on the table. I think its nonsense personally, but I get why some parents would be cautious. All we can hope for is that Pep takes some pretty drastic decisions, trusts some youth and handles the situation well. As ever, it's not as simple as it appears. There's far too many looking at without knowing the full *alleged* problem. It's not simply about Pellegrini not playing kids, its about the effect on the pathways of the players being blocked.

Campbell's parents fear their son not getting regular game time next season apparently, which sounds crazy, but its possible given the talent ahead of him. Apparently Nmecha is meant to be moving up to the EDS, thus freeing up space for Campbell in the u18s, but what if Ambrose/Faupala don't move on from the EDS due to the club not knowing what to do with them, which has happened over the last 24 months a lot? That'd mean Nmecha would require regular games if one of those two started for the EDS, thus hed drop to the u18s again as he's eligible, which'd leave Campbell where? On the bench? Naturally that'd be a disaster for him. THAT'S the effect MP has in the long term and that's the concern for many of the u16s as its the same in every position.

Thanks for the insightful post 2sips.

I would suggest that as well as playing kids more we might also need to be a bit more ruthless in moving players on, both loans and permanent moves. People on here woman and moan when young players go on loan or leave yet we can't have them hanging around as you say. The EDS sid eshould be a mix of 21 year olds down to 18 and 19 year olds. At all times we should be focusing on the best and clearing the way for them to make the first team squad.
 
Bang on the money.

Maffeo has gone out on loan, Angelino went out on loan, Roberts went out on loan which is ideal.

I think it is time the likes of A. Garcia, M. Garcia, and Faupala now need to see some Senior football otherwise I fear they will begin to stagnate at U21 level, causing the lower levels to also slow down.

Barker especially I fear is at a real crossroads in his career, he desperately needs to be getting involved in some senior football on a regular basis now.

The tricky thing for us though is finding the right clubs for these players. Clubs who want them, who will play them regularly and who will develop them right. I think Roberts has absolutely landed on his feet with Celtic. That is the ideal club to develop at, under Rodgers who has a good record with youth and he seemed to be getting a fair bit of playing time last season.

I wouldn't be fussed if Barker left. He was the standout talent at one point but he hasn't really kicked on. I don't see that there i smuch more he can do in the EDS team. He needs a decent loan to get back on track.
 
It wasn't necessarily about Pellegrini being the current manager, it was about the effect he's apparently had. There's perception from some that there's now a backlog of talent hanging around wasting away in the EDS and so on due to not being used and that therefore there's a bit of a logjam ahead of the u16s. The u16s have scored over 100 goals this year and remained unbeaten and, to be frank, some parents felt like it's been a waste of their kids time as you don't learn anything winning 6/7/8/9-0 every week, even sometimes scoring 10. They were clearly too good for their level and should've been moved up, yet they couldn't because the u18s couldn't move up because none of the u21s moved up, or even out on loan, so it effectively blocked their route. Campbell scored near 60 goals for the u16s this year and didn't make a single u18s appearance, and he's seeing his mates like Leko at WBA, an England u16 too, score considerably less goals at youth level yet ending up on the 1st team bench for WBA and making his debut, despite Campbell being a brighter prospect. He's probably a little envious and cynical.

THAT'S what most parents are worried about. A mismanagement of potential talent of the pathways of the kids, which is a wider problem that directly links back to how MP hasn't used kids. Now if Pellegrini had used a few, testing them out like a good manager should, we might now already know about a few of the kids and could've either shipped them off on long term loans or even fully promoted them to the first team, thus clearing up the pathways of the younger, immensely talented generations. Instead we've got people like James Horsfield and Glendon still milling about in the EDS, and even the likes of Celina and Barker who are far, far too good for u21s football these days - yet they have to play in the EDS as they can't not have football, but they're blocking the most talented u18s from being promoted - an u18s team that won the league, which then blocks the likes of Campbell and Sancho and Dele-Bashiru from starting week in week out for the u18s, which they should.

I agree that now Pellegrini has gone it should be fine, but he has definitely created a problem in terms of the balance of the academy teams and hopefully Pep can rectify that quickly. It shouldn't effect us for the u15s/u14s, but there is a perception problem that needs to be undone, and you can't also blame some parents for being skeptical about Pep until he actually puts his cards on the table. I think its nonsense personally, but I get why some parents would be cautious. All we can hope for is that Pep takes some pretty drastic decisions, trusts some youth and handles the situation well. As ever, it's not as simple as it appears. There's far too many looking at without knowing the full *alleged* problem. It's not simply about Pellegrini not playing kids, its about the effect on the pathways of the players being blocked.

Campbell's parents fear their son not getting regular game time next season apparently, which sounds crazy, but its possible given the talent ahead of him. Apparently Nmecha is meant to be moving up to the EDS, thus freeing up space for Campbell in the u18s, but what if Ambrose/Faupala don't move on from the EDS due to the club not knowing what to do with them, which has happened over the last 24 months a lot? That'd mean Nmecha would require regular games if one of those two started for the EDS, thus hed drop to the u18s again as he's eligible, which'd leave Campbell where? On the bench? Naturally that'd be a disaster for him. THAT'S the effect MP has in the long term and that's the concern for many of the u16s as its the same in every position.


Not that I doubt what you're saying. The back log or jam of 18-20 year olds makes perfect sense and sounds a mess. But is that really the job of the first team manager?
Rightly or wrongly Pellegrini didn't fancy the older lads. So why are they still there?
Is it not the job of the Achademy director and EDS manager to sort this?

Personally I don't think Guardiola will have time to asses every team from u16's to first team.
He may identify a few players he feels should work with the first team in pre season but shouldn't somebody he trusts, the club trusts be responsible for the structure at the club?

Pep is going to have his work cut out coaching the first team a new system without clearing paths for the more talented youth players. Next summer maybe.

If you're right and I'm sure you are, it sounds like the u16's should be more than good enough for the 18's and pushing for the EDS. Some of the u18's and EDS pushing the first team.
So surely that leaves many of the EDS redundant. I've watched a fair bit of EDS, no expert mind and players like Barker, Glendon and Horsefield look way off. Faupala, Ambrose look like they may be closer but if there's better and younger they should be moved on.

Viera going and seemingly not much happening anywhere in the club till Pep arrives I think mistakes are deeper entrenched than the first team manager.


Whilst Pellegrini was in his later stages, these decissions should have been taken out of his hands. Txiki, Marwood, Viera et al should be making these calls.
It seemed to me that the whole club stood still for 9 months.
Viera gone with no real replacement.
Youth seemingly stagnating, log jam as you say.
Pellegrini treading water till he was replaced. Only interested in what was best for him, easiest for him.

To me it seems we've wasted best part of a year, if you're correct it seems that stagnation is running deep.

To defend the club though, I assume the idea is to get better and better youth prospects and the change in direction will take time.
Whilst it sounds like Campbell is a fantastic prospect, surely the idea is his replacement will be as good or better.
 
Did I read that the u18's are being treated as an u17's team next year. I assume this is to appease both players and parents in the u16's and to let them know that the lads will be given plenty of game time. It's well known throughout academy football that this age group at city is special, our golden generation if you like, and I would hope and guess that city will be pulling out all the stops in order to sign these lads to scholarship deals.
As has been previously mentioned the eds certainly needs thinning out with players either moved on or loaned out, therefor I found it very strange that we gave 1 year extensions to both Horsfield and Plummer at the end of last season. There are players in the 18's and some stepping up to the eds this season who are comfortably ahead of these two. Another case of blocking the pathway.
I believe the plan is to move the U16's up to the U18's and the U18's up to the EDS to give them all a much tougher challenge. Of course that means that there will be a bit of a clear out at the upper age range with some sold, loaned out or just released.
 
Let's see how this 'golden generation' get on in the u18s then. All I hear is every age group being golden from the 10s beating everyone in Europe to the 16s being the best thing the country has ever seen. Having watched the last two youth cup finals and seen us battered both years by Chelsea I will reserve comment before commenting on their potential. Over the last few years I've seen age groups appear stronger only for our neighbours consistently offering a pathway into their first team. One criticism has always been how our coaching staff can know how to provide first team players when they have never produced one in their careers here.
 

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