English Histree

[Two Gun Bob]

From 1939, they didn't stop being allies on New Years Day of 1940

If you want to believe in British exceptionalism , that's your choice, but you are doing a huge disservice to those who fought along side us.

I am sorry for the late reply as I had to go to shopping to Aldi, they are German and they really do look after us. Only £4.70 for a full kilo of chicken breast and am amazed how they do it. Maybe it has something to do with their organizational skill-set and efficiency that keeps their cost so low.

Britain is unashamedly an exceptionalist with that rarest of conditions of being different from the norm. We are innovative, inventive, generous, decent, and Great .. Yes Great and that is why they even included it in our name.

It's difficult to debate nuances as you are set in your ways, and could even have been a successful politician with your uncanny ability to evade what's been said. On the other hand I am aware like most that we have wronged many nations in the past and am prepared to listen, absorb and inwardly digest. But what I am not prepared to do, unlike our police, is to welcome with open arms a bunch of scrotes that reap havoc and criminality to suit their agenda.

They remain our monuments, our statues, our street names, our history, so the scrotes court little favour by tearing them down like the spoilt undisciplined brats they are. All countries have good pasts and all countries horrible pasts that is why it's often called Orrible Istory, but I won't be marching on Rome anytime soon. Will you Rascal ?

Once again I discussed Britain's defense of the realm during the summer of 1940 not 1939 or even News Year Day 1940 and Its already been established that we did not fight the rest of the war out on our own. Also it's rude to say I do a disservice to those that fought along side us, I would never do that and have already heaped praise on our foreign and commonwealth airmen that took to the skies during the Battle Of Britain.

“Hitler knows that he will have to break us in this island or lose the war. If we can stand up to him all Europe may be free, and the life of the world may move forward into broad, sunlit uplands; but if we fail, then the whole world will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age. Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say: ‘This was their finest hour ”

 

[Ban-jani]

Except for:


When the United Kingdom declared war on Nazi Germany in September 1939 at the start of World War II, the UK controlled to varying degrees numerous crown colonies, protectorates and the Indian Empire. It also maintained unique political ties to four of the five independent Dominions—Australia, Canada, South Africa, and New Zealand[note 1]—as co-members (with the UK) of the then "British Commonwealth".[1] In 1939 the British Empire and the Commonwealth together comprised a global power, with direct or de facto political and economic control of 25% of the world's population, and of 30% of its land mass.[2]

The first Canadian convoy of 15 ships bearing war goods departed Halifax just six days after the nation declared war, with two destroyers HMCS St. Laurent and HMCS Saguenay.[13] A further 26 convoys of 527 ships sailed from Canada in the first four months of the war,[14] and by 1 January 1940 Canada had landed an entire division in Britain.[15] On 13 June 1940 Canadian troops deployed to France in an attempt to secure the southern flank of the British Expeditionary Force in Belgium. As the fall of France grew imminent, Britain looked to Canada to rapidly provide additional troops to strategic locations in North America, the Atlantic and Caribbean. Following the Canadian destroyer already on station from 1939, Canada provided troops from May 1940 to assist in the defence of the British Caribbean colonies, with several companies serving throughout the war in Bermuda, Jamaica, the Bahamas and British Guiana. Canadian troops were also sent to the defence of the colony of Newfoundland, on Canada's east coast, the closest point in North America to Germany. Fearing the loss of a land link[clarification needed] to the British Isles, Canada was also requested to occupy Iceland, which it did from June 1940 to the spring of 1941, following the initial British invasion.[16]

From mid-June 1940, following the rapid German invasions and occupations of Poland, Denmark, Norway, France, Belgium, Luxembourg and the Netherlands, the British Commonwealth was the main opponent of Germany and the Axis, until the entry into the war of the Soviet Union in June 1941. During this period Australia, India, New Zealand and South Africa provided dozens of ships and several divisions for the defence of the Mediterranean, Greece, Crete, Lebanon and Egypt, where British troops were outnumbered four to one by the Italian armies in Libya and Ethiopia.[17][18] Canada delivered a further 2nd Canadian Infantry Division, pilots for two air squadrons, and several warships to Britain to face a possible invasion from the continent.

The contribution of the British Empire and Commonwealth in terms of manpower and material was critical to the Allied war-effort. From September 1939 to mid-1942, the UK led Allied efforts in multiple global military theatres. Commonwealth, Colonial and Imperial Indian forces, totalling close to 15 million serving men and women, fought the German, Italian, Japanese and other Axis armies, air-forces and navies across Europe, Africa, Asia, and in the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic, Indian, Pacific and Arctic Oceans. Commonwealth forces based in Britain operated across Northwestern Europe in the effort to slow or stop Axis advances. Commonwealth airforces fought the Luftwaffe to a standstill over Britain, and Commonwealth armies fought and destroyed Italian forces in North and East Africa and occupied several overseas colonies of German-occupied European nations. Following successful engagements against Axis forces, Commonwealth troops invaded and occupied Libya, Italian Somaliland, Eritrea, Ethiopia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Iceland, the Faroe Islands, and Madagascar.[3]

Presuming that is Wikipedia just to confirm the source? Not knocking it I actually think it’s reliable just to confirm.

I suppose, it depends how much of a contribution on a grand scale, ie how many divisions as a percentage and how many ships out of the whole lot.

And, just to add, I was referring to the Battle of Britain, rather than events that preceded Dunkirk, hence why I didn’t question your point in the impact of the wider and longer war, which the Empire certainly did massively contribute to.

 

[Two Gun Bob]

The RAF Roll of Honour recognises that 574 pilots, from countries other than the United Kingdom, as flying at least one authorized, operational sortie with an eligible unit during the period between 10 July to 31 October 1940, alongside 2,353 British pilots. The numbers differ slightly from the participants whose names are engraved on the Battle of Britain Monument in London, unveiled on 18 September 2005.

Are you reading the full thread @Saddleworth2 ? Of course I mentioned the 20% of commonwealth and foreign airmen that fought along side us in the Battle of Britain quite a few pages back. Never, in the field of human conflict, was so much owed by so many to so few. They will never be forgot

 

[metalblue]

I wasn't being critical mate. The original poster had decided that retention of the British Empire wasn't a central objective of the war. I was merely correcting him.

I didn’t think you were mate. Sorry my post indicated such, it wasn’t meant to, I was merely referring to the general criticism his ideas and beliefs have attracted over the years.

It might even be that as a keen advocate of it he was able to understand better than most how to tap into to that empire.

Hitler [allegedly] believed we would sue for peace if we could keep the empire so that perhaps played into some of the military mistakes made by Germany that allowed us enough time to regroup for the battles ahead. But that empire also meant the worlds superpower, which we were at the time (measured on size of navy), was spread too thinly - with this in mind I read your post on Canadian postings with interest; I wasn’t aware of many of those so thanks for sharing.

 

[Two Gun Bob]

No, I don't think that at all.

I certainly believe that there will be a national pride in Poland reflecting their contribution to the Battle of Britain.

'
On 11 June 1940, the Polish government-in-exile signed an agreement with the British Government to form a Polish Air Force in Great Britain. Finally, in July 1940, the RAF announced that it would form two Polish fighter squadrons: No. 302 Squadron and No. 303 Squadron were composed of Polish pilots and ground crews, although their flight commanders and commanding officers were British.[37] The two fighter squadrons went into action in August, with 89 Polish pilots. Another 50 Poles took part in the battle, in RAF squadrons.

Polish pilots were among the most experienced in the battle; most had hundreds of hours of pre-war flying experience and had fought in the Invasion of Poland or the battle of France. The Polish pilots had been well trained in formation flying and had learned from combat experience to fire from close range. By comparison, one Polish pilot referred to the close formation flying and set-piece attacks practiced in the RAF as "simply suicidal".[38] The 147 Polish pilots claimed 201 aircraft shot down. No. 303 Squadron claimed the highest number of kills, 126, of any Hurricane squadron engaged in the battle of Britain.[39]

Witold Urbanowicz of No. 303 Squadron was the top Polish scorer with 15 claims. Antoni Głowacki was one of two Allied pilots in the battle to shoot down five German aircraft in one day, on 24 August –the other being New Zealander Brian Carbury. Stanisław Skalski, became the top-scoring Polish fighter ace of the Second World War. With their combat experience, Polish pilots would have known that the quickest and most efficient way to destroy an enemy aircraft was to fire from close range, which often surprised their British counterparts: "After firing a brief opening burst at 150 to 200 yards, just to get on the enemy's nerves, the Poles would close almost to point-blank range. That was where they did their real work. "When they go tearing into enemy bombers and fighters they get so close you would think they were going to collide."[40] In all, 30 Polish airmen were killed during the battle.


Personally, I think that is worth reflecting in any discussion about the history of the Battle of Britain.

It was but you overlooked it.

 

[Saddleworth2]

It was but you overlooked it.

Then why say we we stood alone?

 

[The perfect fumble]

Then why say we we stood alone?

Because we did.

All those Aussies and Poles were only able to do the brave things they did because we made a political decision to fight on. The Germans had presented us with a deal which many were willing to accept, most notably Lord Halifax, but Churchill would have none of it. I'm no fan of Churchill but that one decision alone earns him greatness.

 

[Saddleworth2]

It was but you overlooked it.

Then why say we we stood alone?

Because we did.

All those Aussies and Poles were only able to do the brave things they did because we made a political decision to fight on. The Germans had presented us with a deal which many were willing to accept, most notably Lord Halifax, but Churchill would have none of it. I'm no fan of Churchill but that one decision alone earns him greatness.

Oh god. I'm not going round that bloody wheel again.

Yes we stood alone against the Nazi hordes whilst the rest of the British empire just watched. Those Poles were just a bloody nuisance too. They couldn't even speak english.
God I feel so much better for that.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Then why say we we stood alone?

Oh god. I'm not going round that bloody wheel again.

Yes we stood alone against the Nazi hordes whilst the rest of the British empire just watched. Those Poles were just a bloody nuisance too. They couldn't even speak english.
God I feel so much better for that.

I think you need to sit down in a darkened room with a bottle of whisky.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I think you need to sit down in a darkened room with a bottle of whisky.

Maybe thats true.

Once I'm finished though I will still think that History = proper reflection of facts rather than 'my opinion is' ;-)

Where is that 18 year old Glendronach?