I grew up on the Council end of a Wythenshawe road where the posh kids who included Michael Wood TV historian lived. We played football on the fields together and I still get a kick !!%£ out of watching his fascinating programmes about Saxon and Norman England . Peter Dobing also lived on the posh part and Big Mal lived just off it.
when I studied a history module at uni we covered the Irish famine and the Irishman in the room built up into an apoplectic smouldering rage within 5 minutes when we started covering from the British perspective and was excused from the lecture, yet the following week when we sat there having to sit through the Irish perspective none of the Brits walked out. So clearly not objective over the Irish sea with whatever they're teaching over there. Still, similar with Empire and other parts of British history, just a small minority who get wound up into a rage with their narrow perspective they've been fed whilst ignoring the wider framework. One of the few countries in the world where those who are supposedly so persecuted are actually so privileged they can air these views with no repercussions.I tend to think that history was thought very subjectively when I was at school. I don’t know about now.
I am sure your curriculum was very different in Britain than it was in Ireland and your perception would have been very different to how we were thought.
I think history should be thought objectively. Some have made the point of history going back millennia rather than centuries and that is so valid in my view.
What we view as British or English or Irish or Scottish or French will be so different in another few 100 years or so and the whole DNA view of things is very relevant as far as I’m concerned.
Having said that, I’m interested in a British view of their recent history. ( The last few centuries)
You can read my views on that period of British history in the Irish political thread.when I studied a history module at uni we covered the Irish famine and the Irishman in the room built up into an apoplectic smouldering rage within 5 minutes when we started covering from the British perspective and was excused from the lecture, yet the following week when we sat there having to sit through the Irish perspective none of the Brits walked out. So clearly not objective over the Irish sea with whatever they're teaching over there. Still, similar with Empire and other parts of British history, just a small minority who get wound up into a rage with their narrow perspective they've been fed whilst ignoring the wider framework. One of the few countries in the world where those who are supposedly so persecuted are actually so privileged they can air these views with no repercussions.
Anyone can be a philanthropist regardless of status or net worth and I've even had a bit of a dabble myself.No that’s more @Magicpole noble savage vibe. in terms of historical characters, I relate more to Andrew Carnegie.
it's a true story and we'd barely got underway, it was like the fact that this could even be discussed from another perspective was too much for him, which isn't a healthy attitude, he was completely overwhelmed by it.You can read my views on that period of British history in the Irish political thread.
I won’t say you’re wrong in what you are saying but at the same time I’m not sure what you were taught or why he walked out so I won’t judge.
I do believe your history and ours since the 1840’s have a huge bearing on the shape of Britain today and I’m not sure most of Britain have any understanding why.
Possibly could say similar for the whole of Ireland too.
I agree with your sentiments and have expressed as much in several threads but do think that ownership of past failings, on both sides, is probably something that is necessary to healing.it's a true story and we'd barely got underway, it was like the fact that this could even be discussed from another perspective was too much for him, which isn't a healthy attitude, he was completely overwhelmed by it.
Indeed it does have a huge bearing on the shape of Britain today. I just don't see why acknowledging the challenging and difficult aspects and ensuring those behaviours aren't reflected in society today is allowed to turn it hatred, vitriol, prejudice and discrimination in the name of those historical persecutions rather than being progressive, seeing the progress society has made in the aftermath and set a positive, inclusive framework of how we can make it better. Instead we get hatred, a blame game, derogatory perspectives and accusations and a culture where people 100/150 years later should somehow feel guilt or bear responsibility. All that has led to is a nasty insurgency on the other side by people who won't accept it and have now had prejudicial views we have worked so hard to try and eradicate and suppress become emboldened and the cork has come back off the bottle. It's a sad indictment of society when both sides have had a privilege to air such views they wouldn't get in many other places in the world because it wouldn't be tolerated by those governments and populations.
you can't forget it, we don't forget it, but the current narrative of it being all bad and evil and using it to propagate false ideologies which remove all relevant context has created a framework incompatible with progress, inclusion and tolerance.I agree with your sentiments and have expressed as much in several threads but do think that ownership of past failings, on both sides, is probably something that is necessary to healing.
History objectively examined is powerful. There is no reason for any of the current generation to feel guilty for the sins of their forefathers if they choose to learn from the lessons of the past.
And in saying that, if you examine my thread history you will see I’m very much as critical of Irish recent history as I am of British history.
How you go forward is of more interest to me, but you can’t forget the past.
Not really sure what you mean about the current narrative but I do think both sides need to start with an open point of view.you can't forget it, we don't forget it, but the current narrative of it being all bad and evil and using it to propagate false ideologies which remove all relevant context has created a framework incompatible with progress, inclusion and tolerance.