EU referendum

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

Bit late, but what a quality post. Nice one mate.

It's a terrible post, full of condescension and strawman arguments. It's centred around a complete mischaracterisation, and ultimately a lie, that leaving the EU equates to a parochial wish for Britain to become an enclave hidden away from the rest of the world.

He even managed to throw in a pathetic 'little Englander' jibe and somehow managed to compare our economy to Albania's.

If that's his case for remaining then I'm embarrassed on his behalf, likewise yourself for endorsing it. Weak.

 

[EalingBlue2]

There are many Brexiters who don't really want Brexit I suspect. Individuals whose politics is based on sniping, telling everyone what's wrong, talking things down but who fundamentally do not know how to engage constructively and drive positive outcomes . Very much like statler and Waldorf . If we did vote out we would need constructive positive leaders and this is the conundrum

 

[CitizenTID]

i feel like we are being played by the remain campaign, threats - tax rises, world war 3, the end of everything as we know it. leaving the eu is the only way to control immigration though, of course they are going to use that. i just found your reasoning bizarre. if id have said i was going to vote in, but now I'm voting out, because someones reminded me david cameron is an elitist. it wouldn't make any sense.

i think its about more than the politicians we have now, its about the future of the country for the next ten, twenty 30 years and onwards. I'm not basing my decision on boris johnson or david cameron, I'm basing it on what i think is best for the future of the country. I'm young, and i think leaving is the best thing to do.

That's a good point. I just worry what they'll do in the short term while they can. If the NHS was completely privatised, I can't see the option of overturning that being easy at all and very unlikely to happen.

I guess I'm just completely unsure which side I can trust if any. I've never taken an interest in politics, but after this last Tory election I know we need them out - I can't be doing with anyone who are so blatantly out for themselves and theirs rather than looking after the whole population. Obviously this referendum is a big deal so have tried putting more effort into trying to find the right decision.

EDIT: After reading about TTIP I'm voting OUT definitely. Fuck that. I've always had the impression Cameron is hiding something and him and Osbourne are puppets of corporations like Virgin wanting more and more and more, sacrificing the health and financial well being of the population. All about removing "barriers" such as reducing food safety rules to expand profit margins - fuck that!

I think Brexit is definitely the far lesser of the two evils. At least their campaign is promoting pumping money back into the NHS (the EU money) which suggests they're more likely to prevent privatisation.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

Good riddance. England, Britain, the UK are a European nation. That's the bottom line

Of course we're a European nation, we're geographically part of the continent of Europe.

Your rationale seems to be that if you're not an EU member state, you're not a European nation?

Truly bizarre. Are Switzerland not a European nation because they're not part of the EU and have no wish to be?

 

[KenTheLandlord]

Can sense after events of last weeks tragic event the campaign & their scare tactics will just about edge it. Pretty disgusting if you ask me using this MP's death to fuel their agenda. I've seen a handful of people on Twitter put the blame Farage for the actions of one mentally unstable individual. You might think he's a knob but that's completely uncalled for.

Hopefully it'll be a historic day on 23rd July and we'll have the balls to vote leave. We're stuck in a rut if we decide to stay in the EU. Think its bad now...it's only going to get worse. Vote OUT.

No doubt using the death of Jo Cox (she has a name, not just "this MP") is disgusting and i have no idea why Brexit do it.
Pretending it was used a red flag and trying to deny a right wing nut job did it.
We have already seen the ultimate irony in BF denying it and then saying it was unfair to paint an entire movement on the actions of one person.
Farage trying to shift the re-rise of the remain vote on her murder, show what a classlass knob he is. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...el-farage-momentum-jo-cox-death-a7090126.html Yes i do think he is a knob and he is shifting the shortfalls of his contribution to the campaign on her death.
Anyhow interesting to see Arron Banks keeping the tone the of the debate in the gutter http://www.lbc.co.uk/leaveeu-backer-arron-banks-live-on-lbc-132549

 

[EalingBlue2]

No doubt using the death of Jo Cox (she has a name, not just "this MP") is disgusting and i have no idea why Brexit do it.
Pretending it was used a red flag and trying to deny a right wing nut job did it.
We have already seen the ultimate irony in BF denying it and then saying it was unfair to paint an entire movement on the actions of one person.
Farage trying to shift the re-rise of the remain vote on her murder, show what a classlass knob he is. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...el-farage-momentum-jo-cox-death-a7090126.html Yes i do think he is a knob and he is shifting the shortfalls of his contribution to the campaign on her death.
Anyhow interesting to see Arron Banks keeping the tone the of the debate in the gutter http://www.lbc.co.uk/leaveeu-backer-arron-banks-live-on-lbc-132549

If Brexit wins Farage is finished the only way is down and I suspect UKIP will be far better served by remain than Brexit. That is the dilemma for him as if he gets Brexit he will be the face for everything that goes wrong

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

No doubt using the death of Jo Cox (she has a name, not just "this MP") is disgusting and i have no idea why Brexit do it.
Pretending it was used a red flag and trying to deny a right wing nut job did it.
We have already seen the ultimate irony in BF denying it and then saying it was unfair to paint an entire movement on the actions of one person.
Farage trying to shift the re-rise of the remain vote on her murder, show what a classlass knob he is. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...el-farage-momentum-jo-cox-death-a7090126.html Yes i do think he is a knob and he is shifting the shortfalls of his contribution to the campaign on her death.
Anyhow interesting to see Arron Banks keeping the tone the of the debate in the gutter http://www.lbc.co.uk/leaveeu-backer-arron-banks-live-on-lbc-132549

Before she'd even died from her injuries remain supporters were using it as political capital against the leave campaign all over social media, the Guardian even had an editorial dragging Farage into a matter of hours later, so don't get all high and mighty here mate, it's highly transparent.

Her murder was used as political capital, that's fairly obvious. It even happened on this sub.

Her murder was a tragedy and no-one is supportive of the lunatic who took her life.

Now, with that said. Can we keep this thread on topic please? This thread is about discussing the pros and cons of leaving or remaining within the EU. There's a seperate thread for that very topic. Let's not have this thread descend into points scoring as we've seen before when that has come up.

 

[CitizenTID]

Changed my mind. I am in.

I was the same, changed my mind to IN until I found out about TTIP.

I'd highly advise anyone on the fence (and INers) to read this that don't know about it. Totally made my mind up on OUT because of this:

http://waronwant.org/what-ttip

...and my gut feeling I've had from the behaviour of Cameron and Osbourne they're hiding something and in the pockets of corporations wanting to enforce this. Of course they have all the "experts" paid up scaremongering too.

Absolutely no way i'm voting in!

 

[KenTheLandlord]

If Brexit wins Farage is finished the only way is down and I suspect UKIP will be far better served by remain than Brexit. That is the dilemma for him as if he gets Brexit he will be the face for everything that goes wrong

Fair point but here is another, a leave board member having been caught re-tweeting this sort of nonsense “Britain 2050: why didn’t you stop them Grandad?”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-board-member-quits-over-anti-muslim-retweets
Riddled with them.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

I was the same, changed my mind to IN until I found out about TTIP.

I'd highly advise anyone on the fence (and INers) to read this that don't know about it. Totally made my mind up on OUT because of this:

http://waronwant.org/what-ttip

...and my gut feeling I've had from the behaviour of Cameron and Osbourne they're hiding something and in the pockets of corporations wanting to enforce this. Of course they have all the "experts" paid up scaremongering too.

Absolutely no way i'm voting in!

Glad you've seen the light mate. I just wish more traditional labour voters would look at leaving the EU from this perspective, rather than reticence around voting out because of Farage's abrasive public persona etc.

This vote is much, much bigger than party politics and left/right binaries.

Everyone has heard of the 'Brexit' film, but I don't think many have heard of the 'Lexit' film, and I think it represents essential viewing: