EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%

  • Total voters
    1,050
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cibaman

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Joined
13 Nov 2008
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11,922
So, Merkel's options are?

Same as always when the EU loses a referendum. Ignore it and engineer a 2nd referendum.

She'll offer Boris a Norway deal, knowing he cannot accept it. Then just wait for nearly two years. Once the possibility of tariffs starts to look likely, the hugely pro EU majority of MPs will call for a 2nd referendum. At which point she will offer a few concessions on top of those offered to Cameron, if there's a remain vote.
 

hgblue

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Joined
23 Aug 2008
Messages
9,540
Same as always when the EU loses a referendum. Ignore it and engineer a 2nd referendum.

She'll offer Boris a Norway deal, knowing he cannot accept it. Then just wait for nearly two years. Once the possibility of tariffs starts to look likely, the hugely pro EU majority of MPs will call for a 2nd referendum. At which point she will offer a few concessions on top of those offered to Cameron, if there's a remain vote.
Interesting stuff. One things for sure a vote for Remain means more of the same. My take on the likely outcome of a Leave vote is that negotiations get serious. We won't be seeing the rather pathetic sight of the British PM going around kissing the arse of the Polish leader for some piddling concessions that nobody cares about anyway. If there is to be a second referendum, and I agree that previous experience suggests this is likely, then there will have to be some major movement from the EU on the issues the British people really care about. If not, the British negotiating team will have a mandate to proceed with exit talks which will give them a big advantage in securing a good deal for Britain. This only happens in the event of a Leave vote, which is something that should focus the minds of those intending to vote Remain.
 

inbetween

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Joined
28 Jan 2010
Messages
9,086
Same as always when the EU loses a referendum. Ignore it and engineer a 2nd referendum.

She'll offer Boris a Norway deal, knowing he cannot accept it. Then just wait for nearly two years. Once the possibility of tariffs starts to look likely, the hugely pro EU majority of MPs will call for a 2nd referendum. At which point she will offer a few concessions on top of those offered to Cameron, if there's a remain vote.

This will never happen. If we vote to leave we will vote to leave by invoking article 50, there is no turning back. It won't happen overnight either, some estimates say it will be many years before we are properly an independent state.

Those who think voting leave will mean a vote to remain but force some reformed union need to give their heads a wobble, the ballot paper will be very clear on what this means and why your vote shouldn't be taken lightly... There will not be a second referendum.

There will also not be a Norway deal, we will negotiate our own deal based upon what can be negotiated, whether this will be better or worse for the country is anyones guess.
 

roaminblue

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 Apr 2008
Messages
2,991
Turkey will happen soon. They want it and key EU leaders like Merkel want it. The recent migrant deal struck will help their cause.

On the other point here's a quote from one of the EU's founding fathers, Jean Monnet:

“Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose but which will irreversibly lead to federation.”

Your post is truly characteristic of the out campaign and its professionalism and over reliance on populist statistics, quotes and emotive rhetoric. Do any of you do any actual research, or just rely on a few select sites to provide you with soundbites?

The quote is fake.
 

cibaman

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 Nov 2008
Messages
11,922
Interesting stuff. One things for sure a vote for Remain means more of the same. My take on the likely outcome of a Leave vote is that negotiations get serious. We won't be seeing the rather pathetic sight of the British PM going around kissing the arse of the Polish leader for some piddling concessions that nobody cares about anyway. If there is to be a second referendum, and I agree that previous experience suggests this is likely, then there will have to be some major movement from the EU on the issues the British people really care about. If not, the British negotiating team will have a mandate to proceed with exit talks which will give them a big advantage in securing a good deal for Britain. This only happens in the event of a Leave vote, which is something that should focus the minds of those intending to vote Remain.

The question is whether any post referendum concessions are worth the two years of chaos arising from a government led by Boris and the pro Brexit Tory MPs. I doubt it.
 

CityStu

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 Jan 2011
Messages
2,426
Your post is truly characteristic of the out campaign and its professionalism and over reliance on populist statistics, quotes and emotive rhetoric. Do any of you do any actual research, or just rely on a few select sites to provide you with soundbites?

The quote is fake.

Sorry about that - I'd lifted it from a comment on another site. However, the point is still the same; I just need to find another source to show that the EU's final goal is to be a superstate taking most/all of its member state's sovereignty.

I ask you what is the alternative endpoint for the 'ever closer union' spoken about by Juncker, Merkel, Hollande and numerous others?
 

cibaman

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 Nov 2008
Messages
11,922
Sorry about that - I'd lifted it from a comment on another site. However, the point is still the same; I just need to find another source to show that the EU's final goal is to be a superstate taking most/all of its member state's sovereignty.

I ask you what is the alternative endpoint for the 'ever closer union' spoken about by Juncker, Merkel, Hollande and numerous others?

"Ever closer union" is a proxy for "forcing the smaller countries to become more like Germany and France". Its a series of steps towards full union but without making the final step to full union. It will never progress from "ever closer union" to "union". Full democratic union where one Greek vote counts as much as one German vote when it comes to electing a government will never happen as it would entail a huge shift of power from the richer countries to the poorer. And the poorer countries will be unable to agree a voting structure that permanently locks in their status as second class citizens.
 

bobmcfc

Well-Known Member
Joined
6 Nov 2007
Messages
43,628
There won't be a second referendum if the first doesn't go their way, it sounds preposterous ! You cannot offer a referendum then ignore the will of the people.
 
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