EU referendum

[AlgarveBlu]

Well in my analogy, the dad was the UK, but using your analogy... no, she should leave. But she can't then complain if her financial circumstances take a dip. Good luck to her - she's made a choice. She might meet a rich bloke and be better off - or get made redundant and have to sell the car and discover she's not quite as attractive as she thought.

You must have small children with the amount of analogies you use to explain your points ;-)

 

[Monkfish]

This is bloody rich coming from you MF, you are probably the poster that adds least value to the positive arguement to remain, you simply take aim and fire at everything anyone who posts their support to leave.

Thanks for that you e really made me smile on this sunny evening

No supporting leave is fine, but most of your posts contain so called facts that you make up. Now you may silly and naive and think them to be true, or you have decided to ignore the truth and attempt to mislead people on this thread.

There's plenty of other people posting positive arguments to remain, I will let them carry on doing that and simply point out when you make stuff up, when I started doing this i was unaware you would turn it into full time job

 

[BigJoe#1]

By how much would you think trade would drop if we had no trade agreement, or an agreement with tariffs? 10% say? Or less than that. Pick a number, I'd be really interested in what you have to say.

If we go with 10% then their exports would drop by 1.6%, i.e. be 98.4% unaffected. (Since 16% of the EU's exports are to the UK). What numbers would you like to go with?

Let's start with zero drop shall we?

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Just watched the Brexit ad on TV. Can Brexiters please point out me which bits wernt lies lol eg.
£350m on the NHS?
Turkey joining the EU?
Anyone who cares for an older person is white and English?
The EU will queue up to do a trade deal with us?

Plenty of misinformation from both sides but anyone trying to play the Brexit "honesty card" is a complete hypocrite!

There's more chance of the eu actually trying to join turkey in a few years

 

[Monkfish]

Just watched the Brexit ad on TV. Can Brexiters please point out me which bits wernt lies lol eg.
£350m on the NHS?
Turkey joining the EU?
Anyone who cares for an older person is white and English?
The EU will queue up to do a trade deal with us?

Plenty of misinformation from both sides but anyone trying to play the Brexit "honesty card" is a complete hypocrite!

I assume political adverts are exempt from the ASA?

 

[Monkfish]

I assume political adverts are exempt from the ASA?

Just checked, surprise surprise they are

 

[Tim of the Oak]

There's more chance of the eu actually trying to join turkey in a few years

Haha! I could see the Turks rejecting the EU if they ever got the chance!

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Just checked, surprise surprise they are

The advertisers are very clever at just keeping the right side of the law.

Likewise it is unhelpful of Blair and Major to be talking about the troubles in Northern Ireland!

 

[BigJoe#1]

So we could do "equally well"? Presumably then that's not enough motivation to leave, just to do "equally well", given that every must surely accept that there is at least some risk.

Can I gather therefore that immigration and in particular Turkey is your main motivation?

No you can't, if you're actually asking permission.

They are other factors to be considered.

I was answering your question and I don't suppose we'd be any worse off once the dust settles, in fact we probably would grow when we will be free to negotiate with the rest of the world on our own terms as opposed to sitting and waiting for 27 other countries to get in line.

Just my opinion.

Similarly I don't foresee WW111 starting as a direct result of our leaving, nor do I see the Irish peace pact imploding, or all British nationals being driven back home whilst we round up all the foreigners and shoo them out too.

I also don't think all the money we save will be invested directly into the NHS and I do assume all the inward investment projects from the EU will continue to be funded directly by the British Government instead of indirectly via the EU.

There are far too many lies being told on both sides but I'm afraid I am still all for leaving when I weigh things up. Just the same as you come to the conclusion it's better to remain when you weigh things up.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Does anyone have any information about who is performing on both sides on ITV this evening? Three a-side I think!

 

[jimmygrimblesboots]

Didn't realise you were an expert on Irish politics Jimmy. Please can you explain what all the "lies" were? Things that were said that are factually incorrect perhaps?

No problem at all , would love to give you a lesson in Irish polical history , but ive got a thesis to write on the meaning of life , and nice lasagne in the oven , now jog on.

 

[Metal Biker]

Does anyone have any information about who is performing on both sides on ITV this evening? Three a-side I think!

Nicola Sturgeon, Amber Rudd and Angela Eagle - Remain
Boris, Andrea Leadsom, Gisela Stuart - Leave

 

[jimmygrimblesboots]

If the vote goes against the government , will this be a massive vote of no confidence ? Will we the actually get a fair election system of proportional representation , when the 70% of the voting population who did not vote for the current Tory government , will get a voice ?

 

[Metal Biker]

If the vote goes against the government , will this be a massive vote of no confidence ? Will we the actually get a fair election system of proportional representation , when the 70% of the voting population who did not vote for the current Tory government , will get a voice ?

Well, you can take it as read that offering a referendum as part of your parties manifesto was a vote winner that got them elected. So, since nobody who wishes to remain was encouraging a referendum as they favour being in the EU, for Cameron to take the opposing view to the public that leaving the EU is a bad thing goes against the public sentiment of wanting a referendum in order to leave the EU.
Unless remain comes out with a large majority, Cameron is pretty much unable to convince his party members he holds the support of the public.

 

[FanchesterCity]

Your argument is basically 'yes he's a bit controlling and doesn't let you make your own decisions, but you're not good enough to cope on your own'. Mine is 'leave the twat and be confident that you can thrive on your own'. I know which argument is most compelling to me.

Not really - my argument is that the marriage ain't perfect, and some bad habits can irritate each other, but there's a mutual need, it ain't all bad, and the grass isn't always greener on the other side. One side might be saying 'he's domineering and I won't be told what to do' the other side might be saying 'she said she wanted to marry into this family, but can't stand any of the family members and keeps running off to date her American friend'. He probably DOES need to be less domineering and she probably does need to start making an effort instead of threatening to quit all the time!

 

[Metal Biker]

Not really - my argument is that the marriage ain't perfect, and some bad habits can irritate each other, but there's a mutual need, it ain't all bad, and the grass isn't always greener on the other side. One side might be saying 'he's domineering and I won't be told what to do' the other side might be saying 'she said she wanted to marry into this family, but can't stand any of the family members and keeps running off to date her American friend'. He probably DOES need to be less domineering and she probably does need to start making an effort instead of threatening to quit all the time!

I held that very same view until I realised that the change I wanted to see was simply not going to happen.
An Out vote is a result of that frustration and i suspect the same for many other leave voters as well.

 

[hgblue]

Not really - my argument is that the marriage ain't perfect, and some bad habits can irritate each other, but there's a mutual need, it ain't all bad, and the grass isn't always greener on the other side. One side might be saying 'he's domineering and I won't be told what to do' the other side might be saying 'she said she wanted to marry into this family, but can't stand any of the family members and keeps running off to date her American friend'. He probably DOES need to be less domineering and she probably does need to start making an effort instead of threatening to quit all the time!

You've been to marraige guidance, you've explained your frustrations and you've pleaded with him to change, and he's told you there's no chance.

 

[FanchesterCity]

If the vote goes against the government , will this be a massive vote of no confidence ? Will we the actually get a fair election system of proportional representation , when the 70% of the voting population who did not vote for the current Tory government , will get a voice ?

We're not voting against the government though. We''re not voting for any party or politician.

However, although Cameron and for that matter Boris and Farage are only putting forward their own views, Cameron is the one with most to lose either way. On the one hand, there's an obligation for him to advise the nation on what he believes to be the best option, and in theory if they choose otherwise, that's not a slight on him, but it does mean the nation doesn't think his judgment is correct. It also means that although he could then carry on as Prime Minister and do the best for us outside of Europe, the public would probably feel his heart wasn't in it and wouldn't therefore be the best leader for us.

Essentially, he'd have to go if we vote out. Technically he doesn't but it would be best PR for him to go graciously, It's a shame in a way because this particular vote shouldn't be the end of a PM, he's done a lot worse that probably SHOULD have seen him go. I'm a labour voter by the way. I just think in principle its a shame that this referendum forces a PM to express his view and if the public choose differently, he's a dead man walking.

 

[FanchesterCity]

I held that very same view until I realised that the change I wanted to see was simply not going to happen.
An Out vote is a result of that frustration and i suspect the same for many other leave voters as well.

Yes, that is my fear too. Strangely it's as if only an out vote would make the EU change its ways, and by then it's too late!

I'm over generalising but I think there's only a few things that really need to be fixed to appease most people...

1) We need a firm commitment from all members to really want to have consolidated laws, but NOT for the EU to dictate them (or nigh on).
2) We should probably all be in favour of free movement of people but the HOME nation pays the social security Got a job in the UK? great work here and live here. Lose that job? we'll give you some grace, but after that you have to go home.
3) People with criminal records don't have automatic entry - it's up to the receiving nation to accept them or not.
4) If the numbers of migrants reach a certain level, then the borders can close until those numbers come back down.

If they could just sort those 4 things out, I reckon most people would be ok, which on paper are not that big a deal.

Number 1) is the biggest problem though, because it's almost impossible to get 20 odd people to agree, esp in a law. And if you go with a majority, you still have 'being told what to do' accusations.
If you don't start sharing common laws though, you have a real problem trying to benefit from one system.

 

[The Doctor]

It is all so simple really just ask yourself this If we were not already in this EU club would you be clammering to join? If your answer is 'yes please let me in' then you vote remain however if your answer is 'no thank you' you must vote leave ..........it really is as simple as that.