Thanks Kevin. straight out of the SNP bag of tricks!
That's unfair IMO. It would be almost impossible to campaign for keeping the status quo without raising potential negatives of the proposed change. It is always likely to be easier to be positive when campaigning for change (especially if you're prepared to mislead people by painting a picture of how much better things will be with the change when in reality you have absolutely no idea whether it will be better or actually quite a lot worse), the same thing happened in the Scottish independence campaigns.What scare stories? You mean like:
World war 3
The northern Irish peace treaty may be at risk
The birds and bees may leave the uk ( my favourite)
Each family in the uk will be 4080 worse off a year in 2030
It will take 10 years to agree a trade deal with the USA
House prices will fall
Interest rates will rise
The economy will take years to recover if we leave ( if ever)
New one today from Osborne , the northern powerhouse will be at risk.
Nissan will shut its U.K. Plants and relocate them to Europe.
So what are these scare stories from brexit then......
That's unfair IMO. It would be almost impossible to campaign for keeping the status quo without raising potential negatives of the proposed change. It is always likely to be easier to be positive when campaigning for change (especially if you're prepared to mislead people by painting a picture of how much better things will be with the change when in reality you have absolutely no idea whether it will be better or actually quite a lot worse), the same thing happened in the Scottish independence campaigns.
Off the top of my head I cant really think of a Top 5, but the main one for me is that if we vote Remain we will simply have to accept ever increasing union, further enlargement and join the Euro. No further say in the matter, no rights of veto, no opportunity for another referendum if these changes are introduced against our will.
And those ads with seemingly the entire populations of Turkey, Albania, Serbia etc heading to the UK seemed fairly scary.
Do you really believe the Brexit camp have been pushing more scare stories than the Remain? I think the whole Remain campaign has been based on a continueum of controlled drip feeding new stories every day / every other day.
Don't get me wrong I know the Brexit camp has made some daft statements but I don't think it's anywhere as controlled and coordinated as Remain.
Would you like to list say the top 5 scare stories issued by Brexit? Genuine question there.
No come on Tim you're better than that.... He makes a fair point, can you respond, if not to his post then to mine? You did make a very specific point which deserves the merit of a challenge does it not?
Brexit have lied through their teeth.
Bananas ( they really believe this shit)
Hitler
The amount we send to the EU
Turkey joining the EU
Once out people will be able to afford houses
By 2020 we will have to accept the euro
By 2020 we will have to accept an EU army
EHIC cards will not be affected - they cannot know that
Ex pat EU pensions will not be affected - they cannot know that
And in the last week or so they have shed their respectable skins and come out as the racists most of them are with
All the east European men are rapists
Brexit have lied through their teeth.
Bananas ( they really believe this shit)
Hitler
The amount we send to the EU
Turkey joining the EU
Once out people will be able to afford houses
And in the last week or so they have shed their respectable skins and come out as the racists most of them are with
All the east European men are rapists
Thanks BigJoe and Kevin
You are certainly right about the importance of immigration and there have been tons of valid points by Bluemooners on this, including your good selves. Neither side has a coherent plan.
Here are a few porkies as requested:
A) The leaders of the out campaign made up that net EU immigration exceeds that of non EU immigration.
B) Only last night I saw Brexiters on TV promise more aid to farmers when they have already promised (as printed on the battle bus) that every penny "saved" will go to the NHS.
C) The Minister for Defence denied that the UK had an opt out to prevent Turkey from joining the EU.
D) The claim that the EU was a factor in the Paris atrocities (admittedly only a claim made by more extreme Brexiters) was unbelievable!
E) Claims that the organisations that led to the EU did not have the goal of a more peaceful Europe (as well as making money of course!)
Hopefully both sides have learnt their lesson and we are set for a more positive end to the campaign. I will give the Brexiters credit for adopting a more responsible tone on the immigration issues - that seems to coincide with John Mayor's call to the Tory party the other Sunday.
Firstly as for Remain or Brexit, I'm gonna let Roy Hodgson decide because I can't,Sure.
I'm not going to go through the youth unemployment figures for all 28 states but they are generally higher than youth unemployment in the UK.
Here's a taster. In Greece it's 53.7%, Spain 49.2%, Italy 44%, France 24% and even Finland at 24%. I believe only Germany have better figures than the UK.
So if your youngest is planning on working on the Continent he is going to face stiff competition for the jobs available. Now he/she may be very clever and come out with a desirable degree but don't you think the education systems in other countries produce their own clever degree students too? The fact that a lot of the highly specialised medical staff we have in this country have come from the rest of the world should indicate to you that UK graduates are not going to walk into a foreign job just because they have a UK degree.
If I have misread your post as a remain voter then please accept my apologies. Your son may be for Brexit for all I know which wouldn't stop him from going to work on the continent of course as it didn't stop our graduates from working over their before we joined up. But the unemployment figures are sobering.
Firstly as for Remain or Brexit, I'm gonna let Roy Hodgson decide because I can't,
if we make it out the group stage it's Remain, if we go out it's Brexit
As for my son, he's got his career already sorted, the company he'll be working for have offices in Germany, Canada, and Japan, hence why I said 'may',
maybe you've got some scarey tales about Canada for me, like how they'll bore him to death, or how in Japan, you can do your back in with all that bowing?
I put the information up about the Irish passport for anyone else who have Irish ancestry and want to keep there freedom of movement should we leave.
It is possible to stay neutral you know
Thanks BigJoe and Kevin
You are certainly right about the importance of immigration and there have been tons of valid points by Bluemooners on this, including your good selves. Neither side has a coherent plan.
Here are a few porkies as requested:
A) The leaders of the out campaign made up that net EU immigration exceeds that of non EU immigration.
B) Only last night I saw Brexiters on TV promise more aid to farmers when they have already promised (as printed on the battle bus) that every penny "saved" will go to the NHS.
C) The Minister for Defence denied that the UK had an opt out to prevent Turkey from joining the EU.
D) The claim that the EU was a factor in the Paris atrocities (admittedly only a claim made by more extreme Brexiters) was unbelievable!
E) Claims that the organisations that led to the EU did not have the goal of a more peaceful Europe (as well as making money of course!)
Hopefully both sides have learnt their lesson and we are set for a more positive end to the campaign. I will give the Brexiters credit for adopting a more responsible tone on the immigration issues - that seems to coincide with John Mayor's call to the Tory party the other Sunday.
Yes on b. That is a porkie . I always thought that was a bit rich and bold any amount saved will be allocated to the Nhs. At best you could say some....
I hope it's more positive alas it's people's careers (and I don't mean joe public) so it's going to get bonkers. It's been interesting though, can't say I am not pleased it's neArly over.
Thanks Kevin. I'm glad it's nearly over too. I will happily buy a pint for anyone in the Bluemoon EU debating society who manages to get to the BM pub crawl on 25th June, regardless of in or our!
There has been a bit of silliness from the national politicians on both sides. I could live with an out vote but it's this sort of stuff that irks!
Pro-Brexit campaign spark outrage for linking Orlando attack to referendum vote itv.com/news/2016-06-1…
Not sure about A. I was under the impression it was an accepted on both sides that it was a 50/50 split. I can genuinely say I have not seen that quoted anywhere.
B. If Iowa said then it is a lie. The Brexiters are not in government and are in no position to offer any such promises.
C. As far as I am concerned we do have a veto do I agree this is a lie if it's said. This is a scare story.
D. I think you're referring to a one off tweet from a one off Journalist. Bad taste I know but hardly a Brexit scare story.
E. Not quite sure where the scare element is here.
Surely you acknowledge that the EU is just too big and it will be difficult to get any kind of consensus on many many issues. It just does not work in my opinion.
Thanks Kevin. I'm glad it's nearly over too. I will happily buy a pint for anyone in the Bluemoon EU debating society who manages to get to the BM pub crawl on 25th June, regardless of in or our!
There has been a bit of silliness from the national politicians on both sides. I could live with an out vote but it's this sort of stuff that irks!
Pro-Brexit campaign spark outrage for linking Orlando attack to referendum vote itv.com/news/2016-06-1…
It's going to cost you a lot more if we vote leave!... the price of decent beer with have gone up - that's if you can get served, because the bar staff have been laid off or returned back to their native homeland. Of course, on the bright side, there's no change of you being sexually attacked on your way to or from the pub. You might face violence from an increase number of right wing extremists though.
On the way home, you won't be run over by a BMW though, as they'll be too pricey to buy, and everybody will be skint. However, you could suffer the indignity of being hit by an Austin Maestro - not because of any bad driving, but the brakes will have failed.
Fortunately, there will be more room in the hospital and those immigrants will have gone - AND you'll enjoy new luxurious surroundings thanks to the billions of reinvestment into the NHS with the Euro savings. On the down side, you'll have no hospital food or medical assistance as the caterers have all gone back home, hand in hand with the doctors and nurses.
You could write a letter of complaint to your MP over the matter, and it would be sure to get there thanks to the newly motivated Royal Mail workforce, however, since they're no longer driving foreign owned vehicles, and the HS2 link funding will have been cut, it might not get their until the next referendum when we're opting to go back into the EU.
It's going to cost you a lot more if we vote leave!... the price of decent beer with have gone up - that's if you can get served, because the bar staff have been laid off or returned back to their native homeland. Of course, on the bright side, there's no change of you being sexually attacked on your way to or from the pub. You might face violence from an increase number of right wing extremists though.
On the way home, you won't be run over by a BMW though, as they'll be too pricey to buy, and everybody will be skint. However, you could suffer the indignity of being hit by an Austin Maestro - not because of any bad driving, but the brakes will have failed.
Fortunately, there will be more room in the hospital and those immigrants will have gone - AND you'll enjoy new luxurious surroundings thanks to the billions of reinvestment into the NHS with the Euro savings. On the down side, you'll have no hospital food or medical assistance as the caterers have all gone back home, hand in hand with the doctors and nurses.
You could write a letter of complaint to your MP over the matter, and it would be sure to get there thanks to the newly motivated Royal Mail workforce, however, since they're no longer driving foreign owned vehicles, and the HS2 link funding will have been cut, it might not get their until the next referendum when we're opting to go back into the EU.
It's going to cost you a lot more if we vote leave!... the price of decent beer with have gone up - that's if you can get served, because the bar staff have been laid off or returned back to their native homeland. Of course, on the bright side, there's no change of you being sexually attacked on your way to or from the pub. You might face violence from an increase number of right wing extremists though.
On the way home, you won't be run over by a BMW though, as they'll be too pricey to buy, and everybody will be skint. However, you could suffer the indignity of being hit by an Austin Maestro - not because of any bad driving, but the brakes will have failed.
Fortunately, there will be more room in the hospital and those immigrants will have gone - AND you'll enjoy new luxurious surroundings thanks to the billions of reinvestment into the NHS with the Euro savings. On the down side, you'll have no hospital food or medical assistance as the caterers have all gone back home, hand in hand with the doctors and nurses.
You could write a letter of complaint to your MP over the matter, and it would be sure to get there thanks to the newly motivated Royal Mail workforce, however, since they're no longer driving foreign owned vehicles, and the HS2 link funding will have been cut, it might not get their until the next referendum when we're opting to go back into the EU.