EU referendum

[sir baconface]

Maybe you should go down and take a look. Is there someone who could lend you the money for a ticket and put you on the train?

Kent is a classic case in point for the misinformation.

Kent was back 50+ years ago a wealthy holiday destination. Air travel came made it cheap to go to Spain to Greece etc so people especially from London started travelling abroad (as many on this site do) this crippled and closed businesses as happened to Blackpool. Poor empty areas, boarded up B and B's then became a place where immigrants or the poor could go . Then the same locals who went on holiday to Greece themselves rather than blaming free market economics decided to blame immigration for the decline of places like Margate. But it's all about economic decline and is no different to what happened in the Rhonnda or mill towns of Lancy.

I didn't bother refuting bluethruandthru's naive assumptions about Kent point by point. However, the following ten points might be an eye opener for anyone with little knowledge of this noble county.

1. Kent used to be called the Garden of England; it's now often jokingly referred to as the Patio of England.
2. The Dover Straits are reportedly the busiest shipping lanes in the world, with the Port of Dover playing a pivotal role in the UK's economy.
3. To service all that commercial and tourist traffic, two motorways and one high-speed rail line were bludgeoned through the county's areas of outstanding national beauty.
4. The lay-bys on the A20 are constantly littered with piss bottles, excrement and general ordure from lorry drivers camping out overnight.
5. When the frogs take their annual ferry strikes, Operation Stack brings great tracts of Kent to a standstill.
And despite the motorways being used as temporary car park for thousands of British and continental trucks during Stack, the government refuses to share any of the tab for policing. So the bill falls to local council taxpayers instead.
7. Ditto with the asylum seekers and other assorted waifs who have to be accommodated by Dover and nearby towns. The volume of violent crimes and sexual offences is swollen by unchecked migration of people with criminal records. There's as much chance of a Saturday night Shia v Sunni Muslim ruckus in Dover as there is in Iraq.
8. Whilst much of Kent is prosperous, substantial parts are economically deprived.
9. Some of the seaside towns are used as dumping grounds by the London boroughs for social problem cases. Margate suffers more than most because of its cheap housing stock.
10. Kent has absorbed more than its fair share of housing development. Ashford and Northfleet in particular are massive expansion areas. Meanwhile, thanks to the mushrooming population, every town and village has its arm twisted to cram in more houses or suffer hidden financial penalties.

To sum up, anyone who says Kent doesn't do its bit for the country is being totally ignorant.

 

[Helmet Cole]

I wasn't answering your question. Don't flatter yourself. I am not interested in your childish debate. You keep reading the Daily Mail as it clearly keeps you in your place.

Wipe your fanny mate and dry your eyes. It wasn't me who asked you the question. I just complimented you on your skillful dodging of it. Carry on. Don't read the mail myself BTW.

 

[coleridge]

Wipe your fanny mate and dry your eyes. It wasn't me who asked you the question. I just complimented you on your skillful dodging of it. Carry on. Don't read the mail myself BTW.

Haha. Sorry about that. I don't have time to read this endless dross. I'd stay away from newspapers to be on the safe side.

I really wasn't dodging anything as I refuse to engage with the 'Economics for Idiots' conversation. However, I occasional have a look to laugh at such wild claims as 'Immigration will be sorted' if we leave the EU. Dream on.

 

[bluethrunthru]

It amazes me that people believe there will be some sort of trade war between the EU and UK post exit. Do people understand how many brand new German cars were sold in the UK last year? French wine and cheese? The Eurozone is in crisis and people think they are going to chop their noses off to spite their faces in order to 'teach us a lesson'? Just doesn't make sense to me.

On newsnight last night it was said 12% of our exports go to the EU whereas 3% of all EU exports come to the UK. That is spread over 27 other member states so surely as a %age of an individual economy we proportionally lose more?

I did read a Telegraph article that made me smile - they said that 39% of the 2.2m cars sold in the UK last year originated in Germany. I underline that as they included in that definition MINI, Skoda, SEAT and even RR and Bentley who are owned by German parent companies but the products are not German built.

 

[Chippy_boy]

On newsnight last night it was said 12% of our exports go to the EU whereas 3% of all EU exports come to the UK. That is spread over 27 other member states so surely as a %age of an individual economy we proportionally lose more?

Almost. It's 12% of our GDP vs 7% of the EU's GDP. As a percentage of exports, as I said above, 45% of the UK’s exports go to the EU, compared to just 7% of EU exports which come to the UK.

Yet people on here think we'd be in the driving seat with any negotiations? Let alone the fact that France would undoubtedly be saying "fuck you" - as they always do - for us having the temerity to leave.

 

[blueonblue]

i can't be arsed mate, I've been on here for hours arguing. There's umpteen benefits we have.

Then it wont take you long to tell us what exactly they are as you have them at your fingertips will it ?, in fact a lot quicker than scoping out tripe like what the CBI official mouthpieces have to say (And there numbers are wildly inaccurate if the treasury are to be believed, look that one up ;0) .

Nor is playing with % & GDP to rig your point of view, what exactly is the EU GDP in good old pound notes or euro`s if you want to convert ours to euro`s.

The EU has trade agreements with countries having a combined GDP of $7.7 trillion, but then Chile has trade agreements with countries totaling $58.3 trillion, maths are a bitch when you want to play with them.

 

[Manchester33]

Seriously though, what is the worst that can happen if we leave? We'll get taxed more for imports/exports so our economy becomes self focused, it'll be good for small businesses who operate in Britain as opposed to big conglomerates who want to come here, pay no tax, pay minimum wage and benefit from cheap trade with the eurozone.

 

[sir baconface]

Let alone the fact that France would undoubtedly be saying "fuck you" - as they always do - for us having the temerity to leave.

That alone would make it a pleasure.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Then it wont take you long to tell us what exactly they are as you have them at your fingertips will it ?, in fact a lot quicker than scoping out tripe like what the CBI official mouthpieces have to say (And there numbers are wildly inaccurate if the treasury are to be believed, look that one up ;0) .

Nor is playing with % & GDP to rig your point of view, what exactly is the EU GDP in good old pound notes or euro`s if you want to convert ours to euro`s.

The EU has trade agreements with countries having a combined GDP of $7.7 trillion, but then Chile has trade agreements with countries totaling $58.3 trillion, maths are a bitch when you want to play with them.

Frankly, I just can't be arsed arguing with you. You ask for reasons and data and I provided it. I am not playing with any numbers nor trying to frig anything I just cut and pasted, took me 2 seconds.

But no, you'd argue black is white if needs be to justify your desire to leave. Just vote leave, please. It's like trying to convert a Muslim to Christianity with you. I would say I give up, but honestly I never even started. I really don't care. If you want to wander around thinking everything is a big conspiracy with people frigging the data to con you into one position or another, feel free.

It runs off my back like duck's water.

 

[Chippy_boy]

That alone would make it a pleasure.

I know you're trying to be funny, but failing to reach a trade agreement and seeing unemployment rise, prices rise and pay not rising, might not amuse you quite so much.

 

[Moriati]

Then it wont take you long to tell us what exactly they are as you have them at your fingertips will it ?, in fact a lot quicker than scoping out tripe like what the CBI official mouthpieces have to say (And there numbers are wildly inaccurate if the treasury are to be believed, look that one up ;0) .

Nor is playing with % & GDP to rig your point of view, what exactly is the EU GDP in good old pound notes or euro`s if you want to convert ours to euro`s.

The EU has trade agreements with countries having a combined GDP of $7.7 trillion, but then Chile has trade agreements with countries totaling $58.3 trillion, maths are a bitch when you want to play with them.

I don't think you have taken the 'Rotterdam/Antwerp' factor into your summary.

 

[blueonblue]

Does ordinary water run off your back too, or is it just duck water ?

 

[blueonblue]

I don't think you have taken the 'Rotterdam/Antwerp' factor into your summary.

Thats just playing with numbers and does f*ck all to the bottom line in reality, I was going to count potato crops but figured the paddys will still want to sell to us no matter what the f*cking EU says

 

[Moriati]

Thats just playing with numbers and does f*ck all to the bottom line in reality, I was going to count potato crops but figured the paddys will still want to sell to us no matter what the f*cking EU says

Skewed.

 

[blueonblue]

Skewed.

As are most of the numbers from BOTH sides to be fair, thats why its foolish to base any decisions on those, the only honest answer is "We dont know" an you will never get that, its all could,should, and maybe and evidence of nothing.

We know for a fact the EU is corrupt, we know for a fact that open borders are causing problems, we know for a fact that paying a kick back on every trade makes things cost more.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Majority of swedes would want to leave the eu if the uk comes out.

http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-...of-swedes-want-to-leave-eu-in-case-of-brexit/

This is what a lot of the remain camp don't get is that there are huge swathes of citizens from the wealthier nations who know that this is redistribution exercise of wealth from more prosperous regions to the vast majority of the eu although even they won't have enough cash for the likes of Albania , Ukraine and turkey

 

[cibaman]

At one point I did start to think that in the long term benefits of leaving might outweigh the short term costs. But I'm increasingly taking the view that the short term impact could be horrendous. Not so much the trading impact, just the effect on day to day government that an out vote would create. The sole focus of the two Tory factions will be to gain control of the negotiations. There will inevitably be a leadership contest which I expect the outers will win leading to the appointment of the more rabid, generally incompetent, right wingers to key cabinet posts. With no effective opposition, the damage could be irrecoverable.

 

[sir baconface]

I know you're trying to be funny, but failing to reach a trade agreement and seeing unemployment rise, prices rise and pay not rising, might not amuse you quite so much.

Maybe but that's a big if. I don't know what the trade balance is with France but would guess we import more than we export to them. Then I think about specific products we import in big quantities, like small Renault and Peugeot hatchbacks, wine and cheese. And I wonder just how vulnerable those would be in a tariff war. They aren't premium products and there are plenty of good substitutes for the cars and plonk.

Of course they will huff and puff. They are one of the most self-interested major nations with some of the most arcane work practices and entitled attitudes. That suits the "bogey man" argument of the inners just nicely. Personally I like to see the whites of people's eyes before folding and it's fair to say the sheep-burning baguette monkeys don't like it up em.

(I quite like them individually, btw, and love their country. As a nation they are cnuts though.)

 

[Chancy Termites]

At one point I did start to think that in the long term benefits of leaving might outweigh the short term costs. But I'm increasingly taking the view that the short term impact could be horrendous. Not so much the trading impact, just the effect on day to day government that an out vote would create. The sole focus of the two Tory factions will be to gain control of the negotiations. There will inevitably be a leadership contest which I expect the outers will win leading to the appointment of the more rabid, generally incompetent, right wingers to key cabinet posts. With no effective opposition, the damage could be irrecoverable.

All existing terms and conditions remain in place for 2 years after we vote for independence. So you have nothing to worry about in the short term.

 

[stonerblue]

If the EU want to make life difficult then I'm sure we'll start exporting more of our goods and services to our other friends around the world - English speaking nations, former Commonwealth states and more. As I said earlier, that's much easier outside the EU because we can negotiate a deal that works for our 2 countries (rather than them vs. 28) and relax legislation that can otherwise hamper trade. Of course, importing and exporting is often reciprocal so if we start selling a lot of financial services into Japan, for example, maybe Japanese cars become more affordable/suitable to UK drivers. With that in mind, the EU are in no position to try and stretch out negotiations as, outside of it, we'll have a whole world of trade open to us that wasn't before.

In short, we're too big a market for the EU to simply ignore or make life difficult for out of spite. Yes, it's the bigger nations that we import more from, but it's also them that pull the strings in the EU. If Estonia dig their heels in when Germany's eager for a deal, Germany can make Estonia's life very difficult.

which bits of regulation that 'otherwise hamper trade' would you relax, and why can't the UK financial service industry sell to Japan anyway??