The inability to predict does not make it random and it is not true that random collision produce random results. The results are bound by the universal rules as they exist at the time. See Cerne, where experiments are aimed precisely at being able to predict the results of random collisions, thus discerning the rules which govern the outcomes.
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Evidence for religion
- Thread starter Le Havre Oswald
- Start date
A hopeless analogy, because the human species is one product of evolution. Evolution creates speciation from the interaction of genes and the environment, and there are plenty of examples of species with one, two, three or more eyes.
Note, however, we continue to evolve, so you never know !
.. so you agree that there are species with more or less than two eyes but you dismiss my analogy .. ok .. and of course genes themselves are speciation from the interaction of "some other genes" or "particles" or "seeds" or whatever ...
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The inability to predict does not make it random and it is not true that random collision produce random results. The results are bound by the universal rules as they exist at the time. See Cerne, where experiments are aimed precisely at being able to predict the results of random collisions, thus discerning the rules which govern the outcomes.
Particle physics is a field of science that is governed by very specific physical laws.
Precisely, but our knowledge of these laws is imperfect. The laws governing small things such as particles work only for small things. The laws governing big things such as planets work only for big things. But, assuming we occupy only one universe at a time, there must be universal laws which transcend our current knowledge. The search for the unifying 'rule of everything' is the great quest of our time.Particle physics is a field of science that is governed by very specific physical laws.
Precisely, but our knowledge of these laws is imperfect. The laws governing small things such as particles work only for small things. The laws governing big things such as planets work only for big things. But, assuming we occupy only one universe at a time, there must be universal laws which transcend our current knowledge. The search for the unifying 'rule of everything' is the great quest of our time.
So, why are we in need to search for the unifying 'rule of everything'? why do we crave it or want it? maybe, just maybe, we subconsciously see it as the most likely hypothesis to satisfy or to "make sense" to us?!
Hmm, a great question. The people at Cerne have a grand plan to build a new accelorator which is 20 times the size of the current one. The particpating govs are asking why they should fund such an enterprise.So, why are we in need to search for the unifying 'rule of everything'? why do we crave it or want it? maybe, just maybe, we subconsciously see it as the most likely hypothesis to satisfy or to "make sense" to us?!
The response is the usual one for pure science: the search for knowledge is what humans do. The practical benefits may only be apparent when we have done it, but we conjecture that they may be...x, y and z.
George Hannah
Well-Known Member
Those intelligent atheists who ask themselves why they choose to believe there is no evidence for God would find little in the way of enlightenment on here :)
Those intelligent atheists who ask themselves why they choose to believe there is no evidence for God would find little in the way of enlightenment on here :)
welcome back george, nice little barb to bring you back in, you are better served on the agenda thread i'm sure
Religion deals with the unseen, and has stuff that we don't understand fully. The prophets couldn't have explained these matters through science. They came with signs and miracles to confirm their prophethood, and once that was established the followers have to believe whatever is delivered whether it makes sense to them or not.
[Qur'an 3:7] "... But those firm in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All [of it] is from our Lord."
How did this "extremely complicated sequence of events which led to our existence" happen ? Bible or any other scripture is not required to explain planetary history. It is for us to find out and reflect over as commanded in the verses I listed in the previous post. Here is a verse that is probably a reference to the Big Bang.
[Qur'an 21:30] Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of Creation) before We clove them asunder? And We created from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
We are unique from other species certainly at a macro-level, even if DNA comparisons shows 95-98% matches.
Can you show me a human society in the past that never believed in the divine ? Dinosaurs or any other species don't need religion as they don't have the consciousness, free will and intellect in the capacity that humans have and therefore they are largely driven by their instincts. Regarding them it is mentioned :
[Qur'an 6:38] There is not an animal (that lives) on the earth, nor a being that flies on its wings, but (forms part of) communities like you. Nothing have we omitted from the Book, and they (all) shall be gathered to their Lord in the end.
Why do we even need to consider there is a God ? Because, everything we see around has a purpose from the micro-organisms to the cosmos, and that does not happen by chance.
[Qur'an 38:27] And We did not create the heavens and the earth and that between them aimlessly. That is the assumption of those who disbelieve
Obviously we aren't going to go anywhere on this and I don't want to disrespect your or anyones religion but I can only go against everything you have said.
I can see that you have tried to make religion somehow compatible with science but that is ironic because not so long ago scientists were persecuted and killed in the name of religion. To believe in science in any form at all classed you as a heretic not so long ago because apparently religion had all the answers without science.
Your last statement just sums it up: "... and that does not happen by chance". This is incorrect because we can irrefutably prove that every single thing that has ever happened has happened by chance.
The universe is a cruel place and as you have said we are not biologically unique however we can prove that we are only alive because of biological evolution which is the sole reason that we are here at all. That is why humans have existed for barely 0.01% of the Earth's history.
A similar fact is that 99.9% of every species that has ever existed on Earth are extinct due to a biological sequence of events that led to extinction. Human civilization one day will definitely be destroyed by something be it the sun exploding or something else.
For what purpose does the existence of a god explain these events? In fact, why do we need a god at all to explain them? The cold hard truth is that nature does not respect life and our luck one day will run out and the wasteful idea of religion will die with us.