Evidence for religion

[bluejon]

Thank you, enjoyed reading this. And no worries about flippant arguments :) I like the idea of intelligence being self- awareness, though we might come to different conclusions. No matter. Perhaps there is a notion that we are exclusively a 'separate self' - ie that which could never be connected with the whole - and their are notions that we could also come to know something being this (some might call this whole a Holy Self). A choice for the former or latter might then change how we come to see things - or even what 'evidence' we might seek for and/or reject/accept? In this way, perhaps linear time is the domain of the exclusively separate self but there is also a non-linear time that can be experienced as we open to notions beyond this? Anyhow, thanks again - if this all seems like nonsensical bullshit, then fair enough. each to their own....

It doesn't. You are wondering whether there is a dualism of the soul of the body and soul. I am firmly in the camp of monism however, where body and soul are the same thing.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

I live right next to a church ......proof enough to me that religion exists. Beyond any doubt.

Are you very clean?

 

[arfurclue]

It doesn't. You are wondering whether there is a dualism of the soul of the body and soul. I am firmly in the camp of monism however, where body and soul are the same thing.

Thanks. There is a guy called Herbert Benson - who was a heart surgeon - that wrote a book called 'The Relaxation Response.' In this he spoke of many things...amongst that were three models of metaphysics... 1) material monism , 2) Descartian dualism, 3) Transcendental monism. For me, I would lean towards the latter - even if I don't fully agree with his hypothesis. For others, they may choose differently...and so, quite naturally, we will see things differently Edit :ps in the first the body might create a soul...in the last, the soul creates a body.In the first, if the body dies there is no soul; in the last, if a body die there is a still a soul. Very different ways of looking at, and thus experiencing, Life. As for descartes? Well, not my cup of tea...but if others choose this way, then great, for them! :) Edit : this question could also be looked in a context of linear and non-linear time...ie can linear time create the non-linear time or is linear time a (condensed) expression of non-linear time?

 

[bluejon]

Thanks. There is a guy called Herbert Benson - who was a heart surgeon - that wrote a book called 'The Relaxation Response.' In this he spoke of many things...amongst that were three models of metaphysics... 1) material monism , 2) Descartian dualism, 3) Transcendental monism. For me, I would lean towards the latter - even if I don't fully agree with his hypothesis. For others, they may choose differently...and so, quite naturally, we will see things differently Edit :ps in the first the body might create a soul...in the last, the soul creates a body.In the first, if the body dies there is no soul; in the last, if a body die there is a still a soul. Very different ways of looking at, and thus experiencing, Life. As for descartes? Well, not my cup of tea...but if others choose this way, then great, for them! :)

Aye, I'm a definite 1, Spinoza is one of my favourite thinkers. If you don't know him, he pretty much came up with the modern conception of what we think of as model 1.

 

[arfurclue]

Aye, I'm a definite 1, Spinoza is one of my favourite thinkers. If you don't know him, he pretty much came up with the modern conception of what we think of as model 1.

Bueno. I don't particularly agree with you in this way. And I know of Spinoza, though not studied his teachings. Might now have have to go read his stuff. If you have a recommendation as to where I might start, then that would be appreciated. Til then...live and let live, seems the way to go.

 

[bluejon]

Bueno. I don't particularly agree with you in this way. And I know of Spinoza, though not studied his teachings. Might now have have to go read his stuff. If you have a recommendation as to where I might start, then that would be appreciated. Til then...live and let live, seems the way to go.

I can. Don't start with his written stuff, it's far too dense to dive straight into, but Jonathan Israel's A Revolution of the Mind is a stunning place to start if you are interested in seeing the lineage of thought that starts with Spinoza, then extends via Bayle and Diderot and then, arguably, into what we consider western conceptions of freedom and human rights. And live and let live, definitely, but with respect, I also look forward to the day when humanity has moved on from ideas of religion. As nice as some of the devout muslims and christians I've met might be, they're still teaching their kids a doctrine that includes their god eventually burning me and my family in hell due to Him being pissy that we didn't follow his club. And i think that's wank.

 

[KS55]

Omg. Serious discussion of philosophy. George will be along any minute to tell you you are all empty vessels.

 

[arfurclue]

I can. Don't start with his written stuff, it's far too dense to dive straight into, but Jonathan Israel's A Revolution of the Mind is a stunning place to start if you are interested in seeing the lineage of thought that starts with Spinoza, then extends via Bayle and Diderot and then, arguably, into what we consider western conceptions of freedom and human rights. And live and let live, definitely, but with respect, I also look forward to the day when humanity has moved on from ideas of religion. As nice as some of the devout muslims and christians I've met might be, they're still teaching their kids a doctrine that includes their god eventually burning me and my family in hell due to Him being pissy that we didn't follow his club. And i think that's wank.

Cheers. Will explore the Jonathon Israel book. Til then, is it possible that not all religion teaches what you have come across? Perhaps the human mind is only capable of thinking
in a relational way, so it cannot ever understand the Absolute? In this way, it may start to make up stories and rules and 'facts' that have about little or nothing to do with Truth? For me, this has lead to a path of coming to let go of relative misunderstanding, so as to open to relative more 'understanding,' that is still not Absolute Truth...but still a little less untrue than before . But that's where I am at...if you beg to differ, then please feel free to do so. Edit : bought, downloaded,will read

 

[Two Gun Bob]

 

[johnmc]

Going off at a slight tangent. I’d agree religion is nonsense and there is zero evidence for it.

So does anyone who doesn’t believe in religion believe in ghosts or extraterrestrial life. As there is also zero evidence for either.