Nebuchadnezzar
Well-Known Member
Martyn Hett was a close friend of a friend - I didn't know him at all but by all accounts, what an entirely vibrant man, full of energy and laughs.
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Explosion at MEN Arena/Victoria Station
- Thread starter MCFC1993
- Start date
Inbetween said "Your last statement suggests that rounding these people up and removing them from our society is wrong and that it would result in more radicalisation. I strongly disagree because you are misunderstanding the dynamics of how in part this begins at the lowest level. The reason radical networks are formed amongst these people is because often one is radicalised who then radicalises others. In a social setting, it is easy to go through with something so terrible with others, it is far more difficult to do it alone. It is also far more difficult to believe in something so terrible when you are not pressured socially into believing it is right."
I think you may have misinterpreted my point. If action is taken against a person which is seen to be wrong that person will receive support from those that know them and those with their own reasons to feel hard done by. On this site a couple of weeks ago a poster received a lot of indignant support because he had bought extra tickets for Wembley and subsequently was banned. Many of the supporters showed their support without knowing any details, some might have known the poster. All I know is that many saw the banning as wrong and wanted to support a wronged blue. Just imagine the reaction if an innocent person was sanctioned in some way because there was just the slightest chance they might be a terrorist. How many who were neutral would see this act as the evidence to support the rantings of a radicaliser?
I'll ask though how could anyone see the arrest of a known ISIS/ISIL sympathizer as being wrong? I am talking about removing people who have not yet done anything but are clearly involved in doing, I am sick of us being reactive instead of preventative. The simple answer to those who would feel wronged is transparency, all we have to do is present the evidence. If anyone still sees it is wrong then clearly we have a massive problem on our hands.
The risk is as with my post before this one and it is also perhaps what you are trying to say - there is a group in these communities that would be heavily skeptical if we did this and even if we presented evidence of involvement with terrorist groups they would probably say it is fabricated. That attitude is perhaps the greatest challenge but fortunately the vast majority of those people will still not go out and commit such a terrible act.
I don't really care though because in my mind we need to prevent loss of life, I couldn't care less if a group of people are annoyed by it because they will just have to get over it. You are saying the risk of doing something is greater than the risk of not doing whereas I disagree because the truth is on Monday night this man was known to the security services and the very fact he was on our streets meant he was able to carry out this attack. If he had not been on our streets this would never of happened.
By 'crazies' do you mean people who don't agree with you?Oh good, the crazies are taking over the thread.
Just what we needed.
Toney’s bookie
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- 7 Oct 2008
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- 1,716
Could you give a rundown of what he said with the caveat that the guys a bellend for saying it, im at work so cant get to a tv.
Ive noticed a lot of shit from SkyNews regarding all this, including slagging off the showsec staff for fuck all. They're the gutter press
Just along the lines of anyone that we don't like send them back to where they came from etc, delivered in a ranting style. Obviously it will reflect a lot of views right now but what he basically wanted was a North Korea style nation where anyone can get thrown into jail because the authorities don't like the look of him. Which, when one references his alleged membership of the services where he would have been expected to defend our democratic way of life isn't really what sort of place the vast majority of UK citizens would want to live in.
I think it's hard because there are no easy answers and people really wish there were.
i saw this, i believe was written by a holocaust survivor. Not sure if true but makes interesting reading
‘Very few people were true Nazis,’ he said, ‘but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come.’
‘My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.’
‘We are told again and again by ‘experts’ and ‘talking heads’ that Islam is a religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.’
‘The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.’
‘The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the ‘silent majority,’ is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China ‘s huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.’
‘The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery? Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were ‘peace loving’?
‘History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, We often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims Have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our Enemy if they don’t speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world Will have begun.’
‘Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.’
‘Now Islamic prayers have been introduced in Toronto and other public schools in Ontario, and, yes, in Ottawa, too, while the Lord’s Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?). The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.’
‘In Australia, and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation’s shores.’
‘In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of “no-go” zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas
Refuse to acknowledge British law.’
‘As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts – the fanatics who threaten our way of life.’
‘Very few people were true Nazis,’ he said, ‘but many enjoyed the return of German pride, and many more were too busy to care. I was one of those who just thought the Nazis were a bunch of fools. So, the majority just sat back and let it all happen. Then, before we knew it, they owned us, and we had lost control, and the end of the world had come.’
‘My family lost everything. I ended up in a concentration camp and the Allies destroyed my factories.’
‘We are told again and again by ‘experts’ and ‘talking heads’ that Islam is a religion of peace and that the vast majority of Muslims just want to live in peace. Although this unqualified assertion may be true, it is entirely irrelevant. It is meaningless fluff meant to make us feel better, and meant to somehow diminish the specter of fanatics rampaging across the globe in the name of Islam.’
‘The fact is that the fanatics rule Islam at this moment in history. It is the fanatics who march. It is the fanatics who wage any one of 50 shooting wars worldwide. It is the fanatics who systematically slaughter Christian or tribal groups throughout Africa and are gradually taking over the entire continent in an Islamic wave. It is the fanatics who bomb, behead, murder, or honor-kill. It is the fanatics who take over mosque after mosque. It is the fanatics who zealously spread the stoning and hanging of rape victims and homosexuals. It is the fanatics who teach their young to kill and to become suicide bombers.’
‘The hard, quantifiable fact is that the peaceful majority, the ‘silent majority,’ is cowed and extraneous. Communist Russia was comprised of Russians who just wanted to live in peace, yet the Russian Communists were responsible for the murder of about 20 million people. The peaceful majority were irrelevant. China ‘s huge population was peaceful as well, but Chinese Communists managed to kill a staggering 70 million people.’
‘The average Japanese individual prior to World War II was not a warmongering sadist. Yet, Japan murdered and slaughtered its way across South East Asia in an orgy of killing that included the systematic murder of 12 million Chinese civilians; most killed by sword, shovel, and bayonet. And who can forget Rwanda, which collapsed into butchery? Could it not be said that the majority of Rwandans were ‘peace loving’?
‘History lessons are often incredibly simple and blunt, yet for all our powers of reason, We often miss the most basic and uncomplicated of points: peace-loving Muslims Have been made irrelevant by their silence. Peace-loving Muslims will become our Enemy if they don’t speak up, because like my friend from Germany, they will awaken one day and find that the fanatics own them, and the end of their world Will have begun.’
‘Peace-loving Germans, Japanese, Chinese, Russians, Rwandans, Serbs, Afghans, Iraqis, Palestinians, Somalis, Nigerians, Algerians, and many others have died because the peaceful majority did not speak up until it was too late.’
‘Now Islamic prayers have been introduced in Toronto and other public schools in Ontario, and, yes, in Ottawa, too, while the Lord’s Prayer was removed (due to being so offensive?). The Islamic way may be peaceful for the time being in our country until the fanatics move in.’
‘In Australia, and indeed in many countries around the world, many of the most commonly consumed food items have the halal emblem on them. Just look at the back of some of the most popular chocolate bars, and at other food items in your local supermarket. Food on aircraft have the halal emblem just to appease the privileged minority who are now rapidly expanding within the nation’s shores.’
‘In the U.K, the Muslim communities refuse to integrate and there are now dozens of “no-go” zones within major cities across the country that the police force dare not intrude upon. Sharia law prevails there, because the Muslim community in those areas
Refuse to acknowledge British law.’
‘As for us who watch it all unfold, we must pay attention to the only group that counts – the fanatics who threaten our way of life.’
You know what pisses me off?That hashtag #prayformanchester is pissing me off. praying is whats causing this shite.
If people kept their spiritual ideas to themselves the world would be a far better place.
Religion needs universal outlawing, it's fucking archaic.
Trying to blame "religion" for such incidents, and that's from someone who is as atheist as you could imagine.
If you are too PC and cowardly to name and shame the only religion that produces nutters and obnoxious "my religion is the only true one etc etc" followers in massive numbers,
At least dont malign other religions, whose followers are now merely foolish, not dangerous.
I know religious people, Christians, hindu, Sikh, jew - they keep their beliefs to themselves, dont bother others, dont go around believing others are less deserving.
The usual rubbish, round them up and send them back to where they came from, the interviewer asked him what if they were born here he said throw them in Prison.Could you give a rundown of what he said with the caveat that the guys a bellend for saying it, im at work so cant get to a tv.
Ive noticed a lot of shit from SkyNews regarding all this, including slagging off the showsec staff for fuck all. They're the gutter press
Gaylord du Bois
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I'd hazard a guess that a vast majority of servicemen and women probably share his views.Not bringing his service record into doubt at all but his politics and answer to the issue we have right now was plain fucking stupid!
Blue Llama
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By 'crazies' do you mean people who don't agree with you?
He/she will probably answer for themselves but my belief is that the comment was aimed at the 'shoot from the hip and ask questions later' strategists.
Cheadle_hulmeBlue
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The usual rubbish, round them up and send them back to where they came from, the interviewer asked him what if they were born here he said throw them in Prison.
I haven't seen this interview, but if they have links to isis or travelled out to syria to fight, I think should be thrown in jail.