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Explosion at MEN Arena/Victoria Station
- Thread starter MCFC1993
- Start date
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
What exactly is wrong and stupid with saying if they are not from this country then they
should be sent back to their own country. He was discussing persons who are considered a threat to our children.
if for one second you believe throwing out of the country or locking British Citizens up for being on a watch list is the answer then i'm sorry for you.
The backlash to such a policy would not be worth thinking about and the issue we face right now with extremist terrorists, magnified by an unimaginable amount.
We have to believe and put trust and faith in our security services to do their jobs as they are doing now and hope that their magnificent record so far in stopping attacks like the one Monday night continues and those responsible dealt with.
cucumberman
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 4 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 5,083
I haven't been further involved in this thread because it spirals to pedantic debates. Let's not gloss over the tragedy by trying to find reasons behind the actions of evil.
There are many sects of Islam, and there are ones that are not even recognised. I am a muslim, of the Ahl Sunnah Wal Jamaah branch. We adhere to our roots but sometimes adapt from the good and beneficial teachings of Hambali, Maliki and Hanafi. We have been taught, as part of our civic and moral code of faith from early childhood to never hurt a single ant, let alone a fellow human. When we are wronged, we are to do good on those who wrong us. I can assure you that those of my branch of which there are millions will not be easily indoctrinated because of the early civic and moral guidance that were given of us.
This is not a religion issue. This is the lack of education on one's religion issue.
I don't know how others here are opinionated that the book and its teaching has caused this. I can recite the book many times over but it didn't and will not ever drive me to performing or justifying evil acts. It's not the book but the people who manipulate its words that is of a concern. If someone has been given the right foundation of Islam from early childhood, they will not seek the 'expertise' of others in early adulthood, because their proper immersion of it while growing up gives them free will to decide what is right or wrong. When I turned 12, which is the average age of completing formal religious education, I have more than enough in me to discern what is right from wrong. We do not have to seek the purpose of living anymore as the religion is so integrated and seamless we can be part of the community as normal people. We become dentists, doctors, lawyers, football club owners, footballers, etc.
The trends with many of these individuals can be easily recognised. These are people without access to the right people in islam to guide them. The right system to direct them. These are people who already had unstable moral and civic upbringing hence were easily swayed by interpretations that do not reflect the truth. I can tell how easy it is for those who have not been immersed since birth in proper Islamic teaching to interpret the religion wrongly, by reading this thread alone. It is so easy to misinterpret something that you haven't had the chance to properly learn in time.
I know that there are calls for us muslims to act on this. But please understand we are in the same boat as you are. What are we supposed to do that others cannot do? We are as detached from these people as you are. My teachings cannot relate to their actions at all it is as different as night and day. People can cite excerpts from the book all they want but I've read the book millions of time in my life, and never once has it swayed me to do evil. If the teaching is right, the interpretation will be as well.
There are many sects of Islam, and there are ones that are not even recognised. I am a muslim, of the Ahl Sunnah Wal Jamaah branch. We adhere to our roots but sometimes adapt from the good and beneficial teachings of Hambali, Maliki and Hanafi. We have been taught, as part of our civic and moral code of faith from early childhood to never hurt a single ant, let alone a fellow human. When we are wronged, we are to do good on those who wrong us. I can assure you that those of my branch of which there are millions will not be easily indoctrinated because of the early civic and moral guidance that were given of us.
This is not a religion issue. This is the lack of education on one's religion issue.
I don't know how others here are opinionated that the book and its teaching has caused this. I can recite the book many times over but it didn't and will not ever drive me to performing or justifying evil acts. It's not the book but the people who manipulate its words that is of a concern. If someone has been given the right foundation of Islam from early childhood, they will not seek the 'expertise' of others in early adulthood, because their proper immersion of it while growing up gives them free will to decide what is right or wrong. When I turned 12, which is the average age of completing formal religious education, I have more than enough in me to discern what is right from wrong. We do not have to seek the purpose of living anymore as the religion is so integrated and seamless we can be part of the community as normal people. We become dentists, doctors, lawyers, football club owners, footballers, etc.
The trends with many of these individuals can be easily recognised. These are people without access to the right people in islam to guide them. The right system to direct them. These are people who already had unstable moral and civic upbringing hence were easily swayed by interpretations that do not reflect the truth. I can tell how easy it is for those who have not been immersed since birth in proper Islamic teaching to interpret the religion wrongly, by reading this thread alone. It is so easy to misinterpret something that you haven't had the chance to properly learn in time.
I know that there are calls for us muslims to act on this. But please understand we are in the same boat as you are. What are we supposed to do that others cannot do? We are as detached from these people as you are. My teachings cannot relate to their actions at all it is as different as night and day. People can cite excerpts from the book all they want but I've read the book millions of time in my life, and never once has it swayed me to do evil. If the teaching is right, the interpretation will be as well.
We need to prevent this again, and that means we need actions.
Yes Minister once described something that's called Politicians Logic. I reference it near constantly as @Ric will probably attest to. The logic states:
Something must be done.
This is something.
Therefore, we must do this.
There's no thought given as to whether "this" is actually something that needs to be done or that should be done, only that it's something to do. Inactive action. Unfortunately that's what many people are currently crying out for because they seem to think life is some sort of Hollywood movie where if you aren't doing some insanity like "rounding up Muslims" then you're probably not doing anything. Because if I can't see something 6 inches in front of my face now it just doesn't exist, for some reason.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 27 Jan 2014
- Messages
- 21,711
i noticed that. I tried to respond and couldn't. Thought you'd blocked me :-) (btw, thought it was a very good post)My post seems to have been pulled.
SWP's back
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 89,068
Your post shouldn't have been. It was excellent and accurate although maybe a separate thread could be introduced for such discussion?My post seems to have been pulled.
johnny on the spot
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 19 Jul 2006
- Messages
- 24,748
People seem to be confusing general enmity for righteous odium and that is worrisome, if not entirely predictable.
I haven't been further involved in this thread because it spirals to pedantic debates. Let's not gloss over the tragedy by trying to find reasons behind the actions of evil.
There are many sects of Islam, and there are ones that are not even recognised. I am a muslim, of the Ahl Sunnah Wal Jamaah branch. We adhere to our roots but sometimes adapt from the good and beneficial teachings of Hambali, Maliki and Hanafi. We have been taught, as part of our civic and moral code of faith from early childhood to never hurt a single ant, let alone a fellow human. When we are wronged, we are to do good on those who wrong us. I can assure you that those of my branch of which there are millions will not be easily indoctrinated because of the early civic and moral guidance that were given of us.
This is not a religion issue. This is the lack of education on one's religion issue.
I don't know how others here are opinionated that the book and its teaching has caused this. I can recite the book many times over but it didn't and will not ever drive me to performing or justifying evil acts. It's not the book but the people who manipulate its words that is of a concern. If someone has been given the right foundation of Islam from early childhood, they will not seek the 'expertise' of others in early adulthood, because their proper immersion of it while growing up gives them free will to decide what is right or wrong. When I turned 12, which is the average age of completing formal religious education, I have more than enough in me to discern what is right from wrong. We do not have to seek the purpose of living anymore as the religion is so integrated and seamless we can be part of the community as normal people. We become dentists, doctors, lawyers, football club owners, footballers, etc.
The trends with many of these individuals can be easily recognised. These are people without access to the right people in islam to guide them. The right system to direct them. These are people who already had unstable moral and civic upbringing hence were easily swayed by interpretations that do not reflect the truth. I can tell how easy it is for those who have not been immersed since birth in proper Islamic teaching to interpret the religion wrongly, by reading this thread alone. It is so easy to misinterpret something that you haven't had the chance to properly learn in time.
I know that there are calls for us muslims to act on this. But please understand we are in the same boat as you are. What are we supposed to do that others cannot do? We are as detached from these people as you are. My teachings cannot relate to their actions at all it is as different as night and day. People can cite excerpts from the book all they want but I've read the book millions of time in my life, and never once has it swayed me to do evil. If the teaching is right, the interpretation will be as well.
seems like there are many thousands interpreting the book wrongly then
tolmie's hairdoo
Well-Known Member
Apparently some poet said we will keep on smiling?
Sick of this liberal prose narrative and being seen to say the right thing.
I'm sure maybe relatives of some of these poor people who have lost their lives also felt a little more empathy with those platitudes before Monday.
It must start well before these people are being radicalised.
This is about communities closing themselves off to integrating into Western society in the first place.
I grew up in 80's Moss Side, black, Irish, poor, they were all there and we all lived together. This bastard seemingly lived in a Fallowfield street just around the corner from my teenage years.
I wouldn't dare walk anywhere around the streets that surround Maine Road now.
It is now a heavily-populated Somalian community who seem to run it as their own enclave, with my pals who have lived there forty years scared to go out at night.
Too many people seem to want to have their cake and eat it when it comes to living in Britain and Western society, wanting those freedoms we enjoy but only the freedoms they deem for for purpose?
There's little we can do about it now, this is the new reality, we just have to get lucky more than they do, to keep the death toll down.
Hunt them down the best we can.
I held my little ones a little tighter yesterday and although it seems it could happen anywhere, I will not let them attend a venue in the future which could now be considered a staging post for more attacks.
Stupid, most probably. But it's one less location I can change the way we go about our everyday lives.
I am too choked.
Sick of this liberal prose narrative and being seen to say the right thing.
I'm sure maybe relatives of some of these poor people who have lost their lives also felt a little more empathy with those platitudes before Monday.
It must start well before these people are being radicalised.
This is about communities closing themselves off to integrating into Western society in the first place.
I grew up in 80's Moss Side, black, Irish, poor, they were all there and we all lived together. This bastard seemingly lived in a Fallowfield street just around the corner from my teenage years.
I wouldn't dare walk anywhere around the streets that surround Maine Road now.
It is now a heavily-populated Somalian community who seem to run it as their own enclave, with my pals who have lived there forty years scared to go out at night.
Too many people seem to want to have their cake and eat it when it comes to living in Britain and Western society, wanting those freedoms we enjoy but only the freedoms they deem for for purpose?
There's little we can do about it now, this is the new reality, we just have to get lucky more than they do, to keep the death toll down.
Hunt them down the best we can.
I held my little ones a little tighter yesterday and although it seems it could happen anywhere, I will not let them attend a venue in the future which could now be considered a staging post for more attacks.
Stupid, most probably. But it's one less location I can change the way we go about our everyday lives.
I am too choked.