Dubai Blue
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 23 Jul 2007
- Messages
- 15,110
It was turn 6 of lap 1I think it was lap 6
Because MV forced LH off the track.
It was turn 6 of lap 1I think it was lap 6
Because MV forced LH off the track.
The block pass ,used all the time in motorcycle racing.stop your rival making the corner.My take, rightly or wrongly, is It was obvious early in the manoeuvre that Verstappen had the advantage. Hamilton was forced off track because he didn’t cede the advantage and tried to regain it on the outside. If Verstappen locks that off, then that to me is good driving?
Couldn't have put it any better myself.WADR, I think you’ve missed a big chunk of what happened and conflated the strategies.
Lewis was kept out on the hard tires because he would have given up track position to Verstappen if he had pitted.
This is a known fact and was told to him by Bono.
Indeed, Bono also told him the two possible scenarios…
1) No lapped car overtake, which put enough time and distance between Lewis and Max, even with Max on the softs for the last lap, or
2) Let all the lapped cars undertake the Safety Car, but finish under a yellow flag, because there was simply not enough time (an extra lap) to go racing again.
Those were THE ONLY TWO OUTCOMES, and Mercedes’ strategy had them both covered, REGARDLESS OF TIRES!
The problems were, at a minimum, threefold:
1) Race Control TOLD the teams there would be no overtaking by the lapped cars. This cemented the idea that Lewis would have multiple cars between him and Max IF they were able to clear Latifi’s car and debris in time.
2) Race Control, after being told by Red Bull’s Horner that he just needed ONE RACING LAP (remember that from an earlier race GIVEN to Verstappen on the rain out?!), CHANGED THEIR MIND to allow lapped cars through past the Safety Car.
3) They ONLY allowed it for the cars that Hamilton had recently overtaken and that Verstappen had lost places to because of his tire change. In short, it wasn’t a 14 second “penalty” tire change, it was a FREE TIRE CHANGE AND it removed every car in his way.
Those are the minimum problems. However, even beyond that, when the Safety Car left the track, it’s up to the race leader to determine when they start racing again. Until then, ALL other cars have to stay behind the leader, just as they have to behind the Safety Car. Max didn’t!
Multiple times, Hamilton slowed to a crawl, as he’s allowed to, in an attempt to gain some advantage, but Verstappen was pulled ALONGSIDE AND SOMETIMES AHEAD when the rules clearly state it is verboten.
That appeal was turned down by the Stewards, as they said Hamilton was braking and accelerating. Huh???
There is almost nothing ANYONE can tell me that will convince me that Masi was not pressured (internally and/or externally) into making a horribly flawed decision to change the rules at the most important time of the most important race of the entire World Championship season.
None of that has a damned thing to do with Hamilton being on old hard tires versus new soft tires…unless you believe that Masi was completely cognizant of that fact, which was WHY he did what he did.
I find it impossible to believe he was not acutely aware of the respective drivers’ strategic positions and, by his hand, he placed a thumb on the scale of this Championship.
Masi should not be the Race Director next season, but the FIA would be admitting their own failure by removing him, so it’s kinda like PGMOL! They’re fucked!
The problem with that is that they also broke another rule. The safety car is suppose to go in a lap after, as the overlapped cars that passed have to rejoin the back of the group.Surely they must have had time though? The 4 they did let past were clear in no time at all. The others can't have taken more than another corner or two to overtake. Think how slowly Lewis was going in the last half of his lap.
WADR, I think you’ve missed a big chunk of what happened and conflated the strategies.
Lewis was kept out on the hard tires because he would have given up track position to Verstappen if he had pitted.
This is a known fact and was told to him by Bono.
Indeed, Bono also told him the two possible scenarios…
1) No lapped car overtake, which put enough time and distance between Lewis and Max, even with Max on the softs for the last lap, or
2) Let all the lapped cars undertake the Safety Car, but finish under a yellow flag, because there was simply not enough time (an extra lap) to go racing again.
Those were THE ONLY TWO OUTCOMES, and Mercedes’ strategy had them both covered, REGARDLESS OF TIRES!
The problems were, at a minimum, threefold:
1) Race Control TOLD the teams there would be no overtaking by the lapped cars. This cemented the idea that Lewis would have multiple cars between him and Max IF they were able to clear Latifi’s car and debris in time.
2) Race Control, after being told by Red Bull’s Horner that he just needed ONE RACING LAP (remember that from an earlier race GIVEN to Verstappen on the rain out?!), CHANGED THEIR MIND to allow lapped cars through past the Safety Car.
3) They ONLY allowed it for the cars that Hamilton had recently overtaken and that Verstappen had lost places to because of his tire change. In short, it wasn’t a 14 second “penalty” tire change, it was a FREE TIRE CHANGE AND it removed every car in his way.
Those are the minimum problems. However, even beyond that, when the Safety Car left the track, it’s up to the race leader to determine when they start racing again. Until then, ALL other cars have to stay behind the leader, just as they have to behind the Safety Car. Max didn’t!
Multiple times, Hamilton slowed to a crawl, as he’s allowed to, in an attempt to gain some advantage, but Verstappen was pulled ALONGSIDE AND SOMETIMES AHEAD when the rules clearly state it is verboten.
That appeal was turned down by the Stewards, as they said Hamilton was braking and accelerating. Huh???
There is almost nothing ANYONE can tell me that will convince me that Masi was not pressured (internally and/or externally) into making a horribly flawed decision to change the rules at the most important time of the most important race of the entire World Championship season.
None of that has a damned thing to do with Hamilton being on old hard tires versus new soft tires…unless you believe that Masi was completely cognizant of that fact, which was WHY he did what he did.
I find it impossible to believe he was not acutely aware of the respective drivers’ strategic positions and, by his hand, he placed a thumb on the scale of this Championship.
Masi should not be the Race Director next season, but the FIA would be admitting their own failure by removing him, so it’s kinda like PGMOL! They’re fucked!
It wasn't a gamble though?You literally repeated what I said. I acknowledged that he stayed out to maintain track position. However that is a gamble, one that Lewis acknowledged as well.
That initial decision was in their hands, of course they knew Max would pass but it was pretty evident that the Mercedes was the quicker car and would have been more so on fresher tyres. The reason for staying out was pretty clear, to avoid tangling / having to pass Max on the track. That is fair enough as well considering the history.