FA confirm Southgate will stay on until after Euro 2024 (p 101)

[ROCKET80]

Except he didn't have much of a CV.

International mangers have a limited field of players to select from and can't buy the ideal players for their system.

So it doesn't matter much if he has a philosophy, if there aren't the players to implement it. They have never been embarrassed and gave everything they could.

And despite Peps talents he still hasn't managed to integrate either Foden or Grealish into centre midfield positions. Something Southgate gets flack for.

I get what you mean about the CV, but there is a lot of context around both that is missing.

The best international managers adapt their philosophy to meet the talents of the players available to them. I'd argue that Southgate has one of the best talent pools to choose from to deliver his philosophy. The issue we have is that nobody knows what his philosophy is.

We haven't been embarrassed in tournaments, but we've been assisted with very kind draws, beating teams we've been expected to beat and losing against the first half-decent team we face.

My issue with Southgate has always been that he has no tactical nous and he can't make decisions that change a game, and between evenly matched teams at international level that makes the difference. The game against the USA was proof, if any further evidence was required, about his limitations.

To your last point Pep doesn't need to integrate Foden or Grealish into midfield as we have KDB, Bernardo and Gundogan there.

I'd compare wanting to play Foden in the middle/10 role to that of France, and Deschamps seeing a lack of creativity in the middle of the park and tasking Griezmann to take on that responsibility.

If you watch the game back, at around 40mins Foden moves centrally and France shit themselves, a couple of minutes later he drops deep and you can see the panic in Giroud not knowing whether to pick him up or not.

 

[coolcity]

I think the problem is it could have been better. He has a lot of good footballers at his disposal, yet does not use them well. His spine is Maguire, Henderson and Kane. 2 donkeys and 1 ageing forward. It is just stoneage for me.

Spot on. we're better than that. We should have beaten an Italy side that were never really in the game but they used their subs when they were getting tired, we didn't. That's all it came down to.

I get what you mean about the CV, but there is a lot of context around both that is missing.

The best international managers adapt their philosophy to meet the talents of the players available to them. I'd argue that Southgate has one of the best talent pools to choose from to deliver his philosophy. The issue we have is that nobody knows what his philosophy is.

We haven't been embarrassed in tournaments, but we've been assisted with very kind draws, beating teams we've been expected to beat and losing against the first half-decent team we face.

My issue with Southgate has always been that he has no tactical nous and he can't make decisions that change a game, and between evenly matched teams at international level that makes the difference. The game against the USA was proof, if any further evidence was required, about his limitations.

To your last point Pep doesn't need to integrate Foden or Grealish into midfield as we have KDB, Bernardo and Gundogan there.

I'd compare wanting to play Foden in the middle/10 role to that of France, and Deschamps seeing a lack of creativity in the middle of the park and tasking Griezmann to take on that responsibility.

If you watch the game back, at around 40mins Foden moves centrally and France shit themselves, a couple of minutes later he drops deep and you can see the panic in Giroud not knowing whether to pick him up or not.

Totally agree. It's not a matter of not having the players, many on here believe that we DO have the players, we're just not using them correctly. I've said it for the past few years, every time we play a decent team we lose and its absolutely correct that nobody really knows what his philosophy is, but what is obvious is that when it's not going to plan he doesn't know what to do. It's not just a one off, it's every time. The only way we'll ever win anything while Southgate is in charge is if we get very lucky, probably with an easy draw all the way through and a huge slice of luck in a tight final. Nobody gets that lucky all the way through, but we're better than that.

 

[cheekybids]

Yeh I get that

Was only making the point that tournament football you lose because of so many factors, I thought Lloris saves and all round game was one of those factors. Wasn’t expecting such a back lash - but clearly over in France they thought he was one of their best players on the night

I just think we massively lacked creativity & the France defence would be happy with the chances they allowed us.

Yes, games are won by moments but I see this talent being wasted.

 

[Trojan1962]

Southgate needs to fall on his sword in my opinion. A great opportunity to beat France who let’s face it were missing a few great players. Withdrawing players who were the only threat and replacing with his favourites is enough to sack him. The FA wont do this because he tows the party line and political correctness is maintained.

 

[halfcenturyup]

I don't know where I stand on Southgate.

On the one hand, he has stabilised the national team, improved morale and doesn't rock the boat.

On the other hand, he probably over-achieved in 2018 and 2020 (were England really top four in the world in 2018 and top two in Europe in 2020?), and under-achieved in the NL and WC this year with an increasingly talented squad. I suppose the question is if he is the right guy to take the developing young talent we now have and turn them into a team performing, at least, as the sum of its parts.

Thing is, who could you have instead who could turn all this talent into a team? Can't think of anyone who would realistically be interested. Quite a quandary for the FA. Maybe they will be happy with almost guaranteed QF finishes, a few SFs, maybe the odd final and, who knows, a tournament win if everything falls right. These tournaments are largely based on luck anyway. Would be a shame, though, with the youngsters we now have.

 

[Bill Walker]

Hopeless manager, can't remember him winning anything either as a player or manager.
France were there for the taking 2nd half, he blew it again.
His record v top teams is woeful.

Get Tuchel.

 

[dennishasdoneit]

Who gives a fuck so long as we never see him at city.

Post of The Year.

 

[dennishasdoneit]

I get what you mean about the CV, but there is a lot of context around both that is missing.

The best international managers adapt their philosophy to meet the talents of the players available to them. I'd argue that Southgate has one of the best talent pools to choose from to deliver his philosophy. The issue we have is that nobody knows what his philosophy is.

We haven't been embarrassed in tournaments, but we've been assisted with very kind draws, beating teams we've been expected to beat and losing against the first half-decent team we face.

My issue with Southgate has always been that he has no tactical nous and he can't make decisions that change a game, and between evenly matched teams at international level that makes the difference. The game against the USA was proof, if any further evidence was required, about his limitations.

To your last point Pep doesn't need to integrate Foden or Grealish into midfield as we have KDB, Bernardo and Gundogan there.

I'd compare wanting to play Foden in the middle/10 role to that of France, and Deschamps seeing a lack of creativity in the middle of the park and tasking Griezmann to take on that responsibility.

If you watch the game back, at around 40mins Foden moves centrally and France shit themselves, a couple of minutes later he drops deep and you can see the panic in Giroud not knowing whether to pick him up or not.

Very well said.

 

[Cityfan]

Actually, apart from Ramsey in ‘74, the only two times England have failed to qualify were under Greenwood in ‘78 and Taylor in ‘94. Only Greenwood survived it.

Greenwoods failure to qualify from memory was largely down to Revie.
You're right, I had intended to write abou England's failure to qualify for major tournaments and there were 5 further failures in Euros including Robson.

 

[bluetonium]

As limited as I think Southgate is, I don't see any candidate out there who could do better.

It will forever drive me mad that Southgate rates Mount, plays foden wide left then hits long balls to him, took off Saka and foden but left goal poacher Callum Wilson on the bench, and generally displays his all round lack of tactical awareness.

But who else? Howe and Potter would be mad to go now, Pep I'm not sure could be happy with international management, and beyond that you're struggling for an English manager or non English with a real connection to England, who can play modern football and utilitise the attacking riches England have.

Cup competitions are a gamble to some extent anyway, we weren't that bad, but I also don't see Southgate winning anything with England even if Haaland and Mbappe suddenly changed nationality.

 

[Stephen230]

Greenwoods failure to qualify from memory was largely down to Revie.
You're right, I had intended to write abou England's failure to qualify for major tournaments and there were 5 further failures in Euros including Robson.

To be fair in those days you normally had to beat a pretty decent side just to qualify. Poland went on to reach the semi finals in ‘74. Italy the same in ‘78. And Holland narrowly lost to eventual winners Brazil in the quarters in ‘94.

The Euros have been a different story. Apart from the two we’ve hosted, England’s record has been pretty abysmal.

 

[cheekybids]

My son asked me how did we ever fail to qualify & my opinion is it comes from apathy.

When you lose trust in your coach & you know he’s not going to pick you in the right position or play the right system. You then see clicks & players you don’t rate getting in ahead of you. The system created to fit inferior players or a big name you think fvk it.

There will be a lot of players that know they won’t play or will think I’m not flying across to Macedonia only to get dropped for the World Cup games & risk my club career.

It will need freshening up so players feel they have a chance. At least bring in world class coaches.

 

[jaiguruKun]

He's playing the victim card saying he's considering quitting because the papers wrote some nasty things about him a few months ago. Reading that interview you would think he was the best manager in the world. Hopefully the decision is taken out of his hands.

 

[remember arthur mann]

He's playing the victim card saying he's considering quitting because the papers wrote some nasty things about him a few months ago. Reading that interview you would think he was the best manager in the world. Hopefully the decision is taken out of his hands.

He's taking the piss and needs flirting.

 

[DenisLawBackHeel74]

I’m surprised GS hasn’t offered to resign…..that would have been the decent thing to do.

I would like Howe or Potter up next please FA….

 

[DenisLawBackHeel74]

By the way OP, this thread needs a poll.

 

[snorky]

He's taking the piss and needs flirting.

Might want to check your spelling there mate! :)

 

[Stephen230]

Don’t get the love in with Potter. Did an ok job at Swansea and Brighton but looking suspiciously like he might be out of his depth as soon as he got the chance to work with top players.

 

[meeesh]

If he's unsure about what to do,well do the right thing and jack,unless he wants to be begged to carry on,which ain't gonna happen surely.

 

[Brox blue]

Simply put, Southgate has underperformed with the players he had, if there is an alternative then he has to go. It also needs freshening up, thanks for the job you’ve done but can we have an international coach that inspires us and gets us off our seats