UK far right trouble July/August 24

bert38 said:
Cheers-you’ll notice in Southport officers were in normal kit for ages-so were completely unprotected and it was a couple of hours before PSU officers arrived.

Look for white hats, markings for the Sgt and red for the Insp -they’ll move in groups of 6 pc + 1 Sgt x 3 plus Insp generally.
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Are there also teams in yellow and blue ?
 
GortonBlue62 said:
Let's agree that they are morons.

Let's agree that violence is never acceptable.

Let's agree that the 'spark', this time, is almost certainly wrong.

But let's not pretend that there isn't a debate to be had about the high level of immigration into this country which is causing these social tensions.

And let's not close down that debate by calling people who want tighter immigration controls racist.
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Your fourth paragraph raises all sorts of questions, off the top of my head:
  • Are the social tensions really caused by high levels of immigration or is it a proxy for something else?
  • What constitutes high levels of migration, are the causes of the 2019 to 2023 spike short term issues? if so have the conditions that caused them gone away, or do they still need to be addressed?
  • Given that the nature of migratory patterns has changed hugely in the last four years as a result of Brexit what does that say for the future
  • Given net migration is now heading down again, how much of a pressing issue is it?
These are not rhetorical questions and are all legitimate topics for discussion

However.....

At one level we've already had a debate - it was the GE and as a consequence of that, the new government will be introducing the Border Security, Asylum & Immigration Bill and associated initiatives.

In terms of scrutinising those plans, one of the challenges is that to have a debate you need people to act in good faith in terms of wanting to solve whatever the issue may or may not be. A significant number of people currently involved in the debate are not acting in good faith, they are weaponizing the issue for their broader political agenda. This is what the last government did, it's what Farage has spent his entire political career doing. So if there's a debate to be had, how should it be had and who should be having it? The government and a detoxified opposition possibly, but what are the chances of the Tories getting their shit in a pile any time soon?

So I understand your general point but my question would be what type of debate do you think is needed and how should we have it?
 
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bluethrunthru said:
Another one getting his collar felt today one hopes

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The government and the coppers are going to come down hard on this.

It should come as no surprise how the old battle lines are drawn. During the 2011 riots the government treated the events as rampant criminality, but the likes of the Guardian, the Statesman and other left leaning media were urging the government to look at the underlying causes.

Very little change now, 13 years later the government are treating these events as criminality, in this case organised and coordinated, but this time it's the right wing media that are talking about the underlying causes and the left wing media are silent, preferring, as you do, to call these thugs thugs and look no further.

The traditional role of a post war western government like ours, is to act on behalf of what it perceives to be the public interest, they're little more than referees ensuring an orderly and stable playing field between competing forces in society, consequently this kind of civil disorder gets the same treatment from every government regardless of whose in power.

There are aberrations to the rule, Thatcher being ours, but right now Starmer is behaving to the norm.
 
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BrianW said:
According to the Daily Mirror, the accused murderer's parents are not just Christians, but active Christians.

Therefore, on Saturday, all patriots should report to Sinclairs, get blind drunk, and brick the Cathedral.

Makes sense to me.
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As well as assaulting any vicars they come across in the street and demanding all Christians are sent back to Rome.

Have I got this right?
 
BrianW said:
According to the Daily Mirror, the accused murderer's parents are not just Christians, but active Christians.

Therefore, on Saturday, all patriots should report to Sinclairs, get blind drunk, and brick the Cathedral.

Makes sense to me.
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Unless the apple fell a fair distance from the tree.

My parents were devout catholics. At 17 I was already an atheist.

Let's wait and see what his motives were before we brick the Cathedral.
 
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