UK far right trouble July/August 24

SebastianBlue said:
You don’t need patriotism to undertake anything you mentioned. People can stand up to fascism without patriotism, just as people can act ethically without being religious.

And it is important to recognise that “patriotism” was one of the main drivers of most of the wars humanity has seen over the last few centuries.

So, you are arguing that patriotism is necessary to fight patriotism.

You are prescribing a need for a love and devotion to an abstract political unit to be a “good” person (or group of people) when no such need exists.

In fact, patriotism has caused far more suffering, death, and destruction than it has ever remedied.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying that you need patriotism or that it's mandatory for anything good to happen. I'm saying that it's a driver and it was absolutely a driver in WW2. Nobody in Britain was fighting just to eliminate fascism, they were predominately fighting to save themselves, IE families and the country that they know and live.

The Falkland war was the same and the patriotic outburst following winning the conflict probably saved Thatcher. The unpatrotic would say well who cares because it's an island thousands of miles away and it's just an expression of colonialism. That however means that you don't care about Falklanders whose land it is and who consistently determine themselves as British.

We shouldn't be scared of being patriotic, it doesn't mean that you need to be a flag shagger or defend our perhaps questionable past. I identify as British and yeah if anything truly terrible happened then I'd help to defend that because it's me and it's my identity.
 
inbetween said:
I'm not saying that you need patriotism or that it's mandatory for anything good to happen. I'm saying that it's a driver and it was absolutely a driver in WW2. Nobody in Britain was fighting just to eliminate fascism, they were predominately fighting to save themselves, IE families and the country that they know and live.

The Falkland war was the same and the patriotic outburst following winning the conflict probably saved Thatcher. The unpatrotic would say well who cares because it's an island thousands of miles away and it's just an expression of colonialism. That however means that you don't care about Falklanders whose land it is and who consistently determine themselves as British.

We shouldn't be scared of being patriotic, it doesn't mean that you need to be a flag shagger or defend our perhaps questionable past. I identify as British and yeah if anything truly terrible happened then I'd help to defend that because it's me and it's my identity.
Click to expand...
I agree.
"Patriotism" was a much needed collective term/driver that helped us get through WW2. As it did for our Allies too.
 
i kne albert davy said:
Think they had a choice not to allow iron ore imports through Narvik though it was their port.
Click to expand...
Sorry, this is nonsense. Their country was invaded by a much larger armed force than their own.
The Germans had a superior Navy, the Norwegains lost both their coastal defence ships in the defence of Narvik. In fact they lost nearly their entire navy defending their country.

The battles arround Narvik raged for three months. As a side note, Wiki Warburton Lee is you want a definition of sheer bravery.

Polish, French and British forces fought alongside the Norwegians, and the allies were gaining the upper hand until the Germans invaded France and the Brits and French suddenly pulled all their troops out. Leaving the Norwegians to their fate. Despite this they continued to resist the occupation of their country, helping the Allies destroy German shipping and most famously destroyed the German heavy water plant that was critical in the German atomic bomb programe.

I know this, as I am a bit of war history nerd and spent some time in Norway and Narvik earlier this year.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top
✖
  AdBlock Detected
Bluemoon relies on advertising to pay our hosting fees. Please support the site by disabling your ad blocking software to help keep the forum sustainable. Thanks.