UK far right trouble July/August 24

[kaz7]

Keir laying down the law , also i saw the racist farage doing a piece to camera stoking the racist and horrible ideas they have , he does a good dog whistle

 

[mackenzie]

Keir laying down the law , also i saw the racist farage doing a piece to camera stoking the racist and horrible ideas they have , he does a good dog whistle

His first big test, and I'm hoping he will deliver.
Either way I'm sure it will be better than anything the last shower would have done

 

[bert38]

Keir laying down the law , also i saw the racist farage doing a piece to camera stoking the racist and horrible ideas they have , he does a good dog whistle

he impresses me hugely kaz

 

[kaz7]

he impresses me hugely kaz

He is very reassuring , lets hope he is as good as he appears

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

Shutting down social media would be good. But probably bad for democracy.

 

[SebastianBlue]

I'm not saying that you need patriotism or that it's mandatory for anything good to happen. I'm saying that it's a driver and it was absolutely a driver in WW2. Nobody in Britain was fighting just to eliminate fascism, they were predominately fighting to save themselves, IE families and the country that they know and live.

The Falkland war was the same and the patriotic outburst following winning the conflict probably saved Thatcher. The unpatrotic would say well who cares because it's an island thousands of miles away and it's just an expression of colonialism. That however means that you don't care about Falklanders whose land it is and who consistently determine themselves as British.

We shouldn't be scared of being patriotic, it doesn't mean that you need to be a flag shagger or defend our perhaps questionable past. I identify as British and yeah if anything truly terrible happened then I'd help to defend that because it's me and it's my identity.

Just because it may have been a driver in WW2 doesn’t make patriotism beneficial. Or mean that we should embrace the concept or practice today.

Would you say the patriotism of the German or Italian soldiers was beneficial in WW2? Or the patriotism that drove Argentina to attempt to take the Falklands?

Again, patriotism is a love and devotion to an abstract political unit, most often ignoring the complexity and value of the humans residing within that political unit. It is no more necessary to combat or prevent injustice than love and devotion to religious dogma is to prevent or combat unethical behaviour. In fact, it is often the driver of injustice, because people can be convinced to do truly horrific things in the “name of their nation” (which often symbolises an ethnic affinity and/or political ideology). It has been used to justify all manner of horrific undertakings, often against people residing in the political unit that “patriots” deem not actually “belonging” to the political unit or simply not being sufficiently “patriotic”. See the “they’re not real Americans or Brits” nonsense with Jewish people in the US and UK, or with Muslims (or anyone looking Middle Eastern), especially after 9/11 (or countless other examples throughout our history, especially when it came to Indian people we brought to the UK).

Just because patriotism was used as a driver in the past doesn’t mean it should be today, especially after we have learned it is a dangerous concept and practice which has actually caused far more suffering, death, and destruction than it has ever prevented or remedied.

My comments are on what we should do moving forward, knowing what we know now. And anyone that has a passing understanding of history should know patriotism is a destructive concept and practice (which enters the realm of ideology), even for those supposedly on the “good” side.

It is a dogma, like any other.

 

[i kne albert davy]

Sorry, this is nonsense. Their country was invaded by a much larger armed force than their own.
The Germans had a superior Navy, the Norwegains lost both their coastal defence ships in the defence of Narvik. In fact they lost nearly their entire navy defending their country.

The battles arround Narvik raged for three months. As a side note, Wiki Warburton Lee is you want a definition of sheer bravery.

Polish, French and British forces fought alongside the Norwegians, and the allies were gaining the upper hand until the Germans invaded France and the Brits and French suddenly pulled all their troops out. Leaving the Norwegians to their fate. Despite this they continued to resist the occupation of their country, helping the Allies destroy German shipping and most famously destroyed the German heavy water plant that was critical in the German atomic bomb programe.

I know this, as I am a bit of war history nerd and spent some time in Norway and Narvik earlier this year.

I’ll get back when finished work more fully Narvik and Norway allowed iron ore imports to Nazi Germany from 1933 I despise people trying to link Britain and its empires efforts in WW2 to these planks bricking coppers and attacking the innocent.

 

[bert38]

He is very reassuring , lets hope he is as good as he appears

no waffle, no jokes, no latin, no ruffling his mop-straight honest and knowledgeable.

the danger is the right wing press allowing him to lead

 

[GortonBlue62]

Shutting down social media would be good. But probably bad for dedemocracy.

If they shut down social media you wouldn't be able to post that.

 

[mexico1970]

If we shut down social media the trouble causers on every side will have to meet in person, actually get out there and form actual clubs.

Governments really genuinely don't want that at all.