Gareth Southgate knighted

Crooked_rain said:
Realistically they're not going to bring in a manager who managed in football at the equivalent (actually lesser) standard of a 15 year old boy's academy team, no matter if the women's game itself is bigger in profile than the 15 years game.
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The process of managing people should be the very similar whatever the level. Should. Obviously in practice the people she manages may not respond to her similarly.

However, I dont think it should happen purely because it would make the women's team seem less important, as if she was getting a promotion. The women's team needs to be viewed as important in its own right, that's been a struggle for years. Her moving off for a 'better' offer would set that back.
 
eyalluvitt said:
The Dallas fc u14 academy team beating the world champion US women’s national team 4.0 proves its almost a totally different sport
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Indeed, and I'd imagine City under 14's would smoke Dallas FC under 14's. These are the levels to the sport. When the best women's national team at the time couldn't beat a bunch of Texan school boys, you have to just call a spade a spade.

It's no disrespect to women's football, they deserve the same respect if you take it on its own merit, but you can't expect someone who managed at that level to manage a men's national team.
 
Crooked_rain said:
Indeed, and I'd imagine City under 14's would smoke Dallas FC under 14's. These are the levels to the sport. When the best women's national team at the time couldn't beat a bunch of Texan school boys, you have to just call a spade a spade.

It's no disrespect to women's football, they deserve the same respect if you take it on its own merit, but you can't expect someone who managed at that level to manage a men's national team.
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There isn’t a physical demand put on a coach that would hinder a woman from doing the same as a man in a coaching role, so the equivalence isn’t the same.

However, it would either take a huge leap of faith or a woman to work her way up the mens’ football ladder for one to be considered.

I guess Wiegman would be the closest at the moment, given Hayes has gone to America.
 
It’s not time for a woman to take over.
Maybe one day in the future but it would cause more issues than it solved on and off the pitch if they went for it now.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
There isn’t a physical demand put on a coach that would hinder a woman from doing the same as a man in a coaching role, so the equivalence isn’t the same.

However, it would either take a huge leap of faith or a woman to work her way up the mens’ football ladder for one to be considered.

I guess Wiegman would be the closest at the moment, given Hayes has gone to America.
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But it's having the experience and understanding of a more physically demanding, quicker game. These things massively play into your tactics.

A boxer doesn't employ Steve from the local level boxing gym to train him to fight Floyd Mayweather, it's a completely different level of technical ability and you need someone who has real experience at a good level to come up with ways of tackling the skill set you're coming up against...

I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just an unrealistic expectation to place on someone to jump up so far in levels at once. I'm certainly not opposed to women managing men's teams if they get the opportunities to prove themselves through the levels, I'd quite like to see them given a chance at mens club level, why not?

It's not about them being women, it's about the levels they'd be trying to jump at once. I wouldn't want Frank Lampard as England manager because he hasn't proven anything at a good level in mens football, neither has a women's international manager.
 
Crooked_rain said:
But it's having the experience and understanding of a more physically demanding, quicker game. These things massively play into your tactics.

A boxer doesn't employ Steve from the local level boxing gym to train him to fight Floyd Mayweather, it's a completely different level of technical ability and you need someone who has real experience at a good level to come up with ways of tackling the skill set you're coming up against...

I'm not saying it's impossible, it's just an unrealistic expectation to place on someone to jump up so far in levels at once. I'm certain not opposed to women managing men's teams if they get the opportunities to prove themselves through the levels, I'd quite like to see them given a chance at mens club level, why not?

It's not about them being women, it's about the levels they'd be trying to jump at once. I wouldn't want Frank Lampard as England manager because he hasn't proven anything at a good level in mens football, neither has a women's international manager.
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That would exclude any male coach that didn’t play at the highest level too though.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
That would exclude any male coach that didn’t play at the highest level too though.
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I'm talking about coaching, not playing. Coaches don't need to have been great players. They need to prove they can coach, that's all.

I didn't think Southgate was good enough to get England over the line before it was proven he couldn't, even though he had coached at Premier league level.

Coaching players at a team that would get smoked by teenage boys is so far removed from being able to coach a team in the men's world cup. It's a completely different approach.
 
Crooked_rain said:
I'm talking about coaching, not playing. Coaches don't need to have been great players. They need to prove they can coach, that's all.

I didn't think Southgate was good enough to get England over the line before it was proven he couldn't, even though he had coached at Premier league level.

Coaching players at a team that would get smoked by teenage boys is so far removed from being able to coach a team in the men's world cup. It's a completely different approach.
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But an international coach doesn’t have to have played at any level to be able to understand tactics. Mourinho has done pretty well out of not being able to play football, but managed to get his coaching across to his teams.

Forget that a coach may have coached another side. If they are able to get their point across to their team, then they can coach at any level.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
But an international coach doesn’t have to have played at any level to be able to understand tactics. Mourinho has done pretty well out of not being able to play football, but managed to get his coaching across to his teams.

Forget that a coach may have coached another side. If they are able to get their point across to their team, then they can coach at any level.
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Why do you keep talking about playing? I never once mentioned playing.

COACHING at the the level worse than under 15s academy level is so far removed from men's international level. It's absolutely unrealistic to expect someome to go from that level to the other.

That's all I'm saying. i'm not talking about playing. It's irrelevant whether you played like Zidane or Peter Kay.

Mourinho gained his knowledge working with people like Bobby Robson at Barcelona, but nobody then was asking him to manage Portugal and nor should they have been. Just like they shouldn't expect someome who manages a team who couldn't beat an U15 boys team to go head to head at a world cup with international managers.

Coaching...Coaching..

Get it?
 
Crooked_rain said:
Why do you keep talking about playing? I never once mentioned playing.

COACHING at the the level worse than under 15s academy level is so far removed from men's international level. It's absolutely unrealistic to expect someome to go from that level to the other.

That's all I'm saying. i'm not talking about playing. It's irrelevant whether you played like Zidane or Peter Kay.

Coaching...Coaching..

Get it?
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Anyone can coach. It’s about getting your point across to your set of players.
 
Crooked_rain said:
Why do you keep talking about playing? I never once mentioned playing.

COACHING at the the level worse than under 15s academy level is so far removed from men's international level. It's absolutely unrealistic to expect someome to go from that level to the other.

That's all I'm saying. i'm not talking about playing. It's irrelevant whether you played like Zidane or Peter Kay.

Mourinho gained his knowledge working with people like Bobby Robson at Barcelona, but nobody then was asking him to manage Portugal and nor should they have been. Just like they shouldn't expect someome who manages a team who couldn't beat an U15 boys team to go head to head at a world cup with international managers.

Coaching...Coaching..

Get it?
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I think you're banging your head against a brick wall here.
 
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Crooked_rain said:
Why do you keep talking about playing? I never once mentioned playing.

COACHING at the the level worse than under 15s academy level is so far removed from men's international level. It's absolutely unrealistic to expect someome to go from that level to the other.

That's all I'm saying. i'm not talking about playing. It's irrelevant whether you played like Zidane or Peter Kay.

Mourinho gained his knowledge working with people like Bobby Robson at Barcelona, but nobody then was asking him to manage Portugal and nor should they have been. Just like they shouldn't expect someome who manages a team who couldn't beat an U15 boys team to go head to head at a world cup with international managers.

Coaching...Coaching..

Get it?
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I think the point is that your argument is around the women's game being so far removed from the men's that you couldn't coach at that level, when ultimately it's 11 v 11 and the objective is the same so you should be able to coach at any level really. The women are playing against other elite women. It's a slower pace, it's less physical and there are nuances that make it different but the systems, style of play and tactics aren't dissimilar.

All pointless because your main point about social/cultural issues means it will not happen this time around.
 
I don’t think there’s a woman managing a men’s professional team at any level in England yet some are suggesting we should give the top job in England to one?

The mind boggles on here sometimes…
 
Re the gender thing, if I remember rightly, Murray's partnership with Mauresmo seemed to yield decent results despite their being a qualitative difference in the physicality of mens and women's tennis?

I don't see it happening any time soon but I'm not convinced that the relative differences in the men's and women's game is a barrier to it happening in the future. Cultural barriers would need to be broken down though.

Maybe as more women coach at all levels it's possible that a woman who has spent her coaching career in the men's game is more likely to make the leap than someone transitioning across from the women's game.

One for future days though. I'm more concerned about ending up with a famous ex pro who hasn't really achieved anything managerially being given the nod, because we have a bit too much of that already in the game here.
 
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