George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

[BobKowalski]

It wasn’t this recent incident that lead to me looking this up recently, it was a knowledge gained from a documentary series that I watched a couple of years ago called Africa’s Great Civilisations by Henry Louis Gates Jr.

Obviously he didn’t cover Emily Pankhurst.

But let’s skip to the chase. The point of all this, and Pyramids, Nelsons Column, the Eye of Sauron or whatever is to demand that we either treat equally every instance of slavery stretching back to antiquity or we shut up about the Atlantic Slave trade. As with the Colston statue, dumping his statue does not mean we have to dump every statue of every person including those who may have sat next to a slave trader at a restaurant.

So here’s the thing. I don’t give a shit about Emily Pankhurst, the Aztecs or any other fucking random name you guys are going to throw into the mix today. Now you want to keep playing ‘slavery bingo’ that’s fine. Knock yourself out. Me. I’ll pass.

 

[PannickAtTheDisco]

Obviously he didn’t cover Emily Pankhurst.

But let’s skip to the chase. The point of all this, and Pyramids, Nelsons Column, the Eye of Sauron or whatever is to demand that we either treat equally every instance of slavery stretching back to antiquity or we shut up about the Atlantic Slave trade. As with the Colston statue, dumping his statue does not mean we have to dump every statue of every person including those who may have sat next to a slave trader at a restaurant.

So here’s the thing. I don’t give a shit about Emily Pankhurst, the Aztecs or any other fucking random name you guys are going to throw into the mix today. Now you want to keep playing ‘slavery bingo’ that’s fine. Knock yourself out. Me. I’ll pass.

Damn, I've not got pyramids, Nelsons Column, the Eye of Sauron, Aztecs or Emily Pankhurt on my bingo card. I've just got financial doping, sportwashing, oil money and Emptihad on mine...

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Should the Abraham Lincoln statue in Town also be taken down?

Seen as important in the end of slavery in the US, but his treatment of the Native Americans was abhorrent.

He ordered massacres on Native Americans and organised the removal of Native Americans from their lands onto reservations.

everyone historical statue, building, street name. Looks like a certain small section of society want these removed. Ie let’s erase our history.

Pretty much every historical figure over the last 1000 years can be linked to something awful. I look forward to the Colesuem in Rome being removed.

 

[BobKowalski]

There is a long list of Confederate statues that are to be removed, including Robert E Lee.

Surprisingly though Bedford Forrest is not amongst them. Bedford was a ****, the statue was designed by a white supremacist and not erected until 1998.

Some of the others are on the list like Jefferson, I am surprised by Lee though.

Read somewhere that Lee was against any monuments of statues commemorating the Confederacy or himself. Thought it would hinder reconciliation between the States.

Most of the statues were put up decades after the war ended. Agree on Forrest although the statue makes him look like a deranged twat so pros and cons.

 

[BobKowalski]

everyone historical statue, building, street name. Looks like a certain small section of society want these removed. Ie let’s erase our history.

Pretty much every historical figure over the last 1000 years can be linked to something awful. I look forward to the Colesuem in Rome being removed.

Didn’t have the eradication of the entire history of the UK on my Slavery Bingo card.

Yeah okay so I’m playing. Sue me. The pant wetting hysteria is going to be epic today and too delicious to ignore...

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Obviously he didn’t cover Emily Pankhurst.

Emmeline.

 

[urban genie]

Women called in LBC to Nick Ferrari going mad at him for not understanding her as a African Caribbean women - Ferrari explained the talking point is about the removal of the statue of Robert Baden-Powell and do you think it should be removed, her reply 'stop talking over me! yes, it should come down!' ... Ferrari 'and what did he do that makes you want his statue removed ? ' ... ''well i haven't read his history'

See, this lady should have read about the old scout master before calling in then she could have argued about his homophobia and liking for hilter.

 

[Blue Mist]

Emmeline.

So that's who Errol Brown was singing about, I never knew Pankhurst topped herself.

 

[purplenose]

Whilst there seems to be an appetite for having white people beg for forgiveness over things that happened 100s of years ago, none of which had the slightest thing to do with any white person living today. I wonder why there is no thought of perhaps calling out black people for the kinds of things that happened for example in Rwanda 800k lives should have mattered, as should the continuance of similar things going on to this day in the likes of Nigeria, DR Congo and others.

No mention of the years of carnage in Somalia, the slaughter of any colour of person who should come across Boko Haram.

One terrible murder thousands of miles from this country and the whole population of our country have their lives put at risk.

Where were all these people in Kigali? Why are they not in places such the the Central African Republic, Chad, Mali, Libya. Why are they not in Mogadishu, Eritrea, or even Haiti if Africa is not your bag.

Every day much worse things happen to people in those countries, and its not red neck Yank coppers doing things, but of course its much safer bullying a few coppers ordered not to fight back or for those slightly less brave chucking the odd statue in a river. Before heading of to mix with their families of all ages.

Here is a fact there will be more bame people die as a result of these protests than that shithouse cop in the states killed, there will also be white people die not due to his actions but due to the actions of those claiming to represent a movement claiming lives matter. Sorry I dont believe any lives matter to these people black or otherwise.

I support any genuine efforts to bring people together and stop hatred, but I will not be taking a knee or apologising for stuff from centuries ago or things that happened in the states 2 weeks ago, yes I am white but none of it was anything to do with me.

 

[urban genie]

On the statues it is all about context and what they mean in relationship to their commissioning.

For example colston was erected 170 after his death and put up to stop a workers revolt by trying to use this man who apperently made bristol into a great city a unifying force
That too is bollocks as all his philamthropy was conditional you agreed with his opinions otherwise you were ommited

The pyramids aguement is pretty pathetic tbf.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

One terrible murder thousands of miles from this country and the whole population of our country have their lives put at risk.

Seriously?

 

[SWP's back]

 

[Ban-jani]

People need to search out the video of officers getting attacked in hackney today. This is one example of the harsh reality of actual policing. We need the government and the public’s support right now because it feels very much that it’s a free for all against us and that somehow we have become a legitimate target. I’m genuinely concerned that this will end in the murder of an officer.

For something a police officer did in another country.

It’s insanity.

 

[SWP's back]

A revolution of anarchists armed with assault rifles?

The US Civil War was a struggle of government versus the confederate states.

This is a coup, not a revolution.

You really don’t know what a coup is.

 

[Blue Mist]

There is great debate about statues at the moment and various posters are mentioning Lincoln in Manchester. We (Manchester) only got that by accident. Two different sculptures of the man were commissioned, one was said to make him look like he had stomach ache, the other was bigger and better. Guess which one London got ?
The stomach ache statue was meant to go to Liverpool (for some bizarre reason) but we raised the money to get it. It wasn't donated because of opposition to slavery because that was just a lie. Like now, Liverpool was our (business) enemy, they had grown rich partly on the back of the slave trade, we realised if we opposed it and it was abolished we would benefit economically.

That was also Lincolns view, he wasn't against slavery but he saw the very rich southern states wanting to be separate from a united America. Abolishing slavery was a way to bring them into line and keep the union.

 

[purplenose]

Seriously?

Have you heard of Coronavirus?

 

[SWP's back]

People are suddenly experts in spelling mesopotamia and knowing what it was

It means the land between the rivers.

It’s the fertile bit between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. I always look out for it when flying home.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Have you heard of Coronavirus?

I have, but your statement lacks all sense of proportionality and reason and therefore undermines the point you are seeking to advance.

What about people who have already caught the virus - are their lives at risk?
What about people who live in Shetland and are isolating - are their lives at risk?
What about the large number of people who catch the virus and are asymptomatic - are their lives at risk?


The whole population ffs. Get a fucking grip.

 

[urban genie]

It means the land between the rivers.

It’s the fertile bit between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. I always look out for it when flying home.

Smart arse ;-)

Maybe I should have said Sumer but even I can spell that

 

[Fame Monster]

Obviously he didn’t cover Emily Pankhurst.

But let’s skip to the chase. The point of all this, and Pyramids, Nelsons Column, the Eye of Sauron or whatever is to demand that we either treat equally every instance of slavery stretching back to antiquity or we shut up about the Atlantic Slave trade. As with the Colston statue, dumping his statue does not mean we have to dump every statue of every person including those who may have sat next to a slave trader at a restaurant.

So here’s the thing. I don’t give a shit about Emily Pankhurst, the Aztecs or any other fucking random name you guys are going to throw into the mix today. Now you want to keep playing ‘slavery bingo’ that’s fine. Knock yourself out. Me. I’ll pass.

I think there's two points to that line of argument:

1. There seems to be a historical revisionism that slavery only ever affected black people, was perpetrated by white people, and that
Britain's role was uniquely horrible. Much in the same way that some believe the British Empire was all nice and rosy: it's historical nonsense and that's why people are pointing out that it was practiced by every empire known to man.

2. The people campaigning against the statues aren't doing it on the principle that slavery is evil, they're doing it on the principle that slavery against black people is evil. So it's not 1 rule for all statues, which undermines the arguments about equality.