German leisure centre bans all migrants after a schoolgirl was sexually assaulted

I literally have fuck all clue what you are on about.

What bloody quote are you on about?

You appear to think you're making a point to me. That's why you first quoted me in this thread. Why point do you think you're making?
 
I grew up nextdoor to a lovely Iraqi family, wife was a Christian, husband was a Shia. Neither were particularly religious, both were educated. I grew up playing with their grandson.

Doesn't mean I'm blind to the fact that there is an issue with immigration from that nation, and others like it, into the EU. Culturally and religiously these nations are very different from ours, mass immigration from these places can bring with it serious social issues.

Especially if most of the migrants are unskilled young men, who hold highly backwards views about women - doubly so if they're non Muslim women.

Your comment is a poor riposte that seeks to gloss over this issue as if it's just the blanket demonisation of all Muslims borne out of bigotry.

It's not. It's a very real and literal problem that is causing issues in Europe at present, as evidenced by the example in the OP.

I was speaking to a Syrian on reddit recently, who sought asylum in the Netherlands early in the war in Syria, and he himself said he felt that the situation had grown out of control, even stating that he felt in danger from other migrants/refugees. He acknowledged all the problems that mass migration from Middle Eastern and North African nations bring with them, particularly re integration and assimilation. He expressed despair and frustration that he knew of many migrants who hadn't gone to anywhere near the lengths he had to assimilate into the Netherlands, and instead held an often insular and entitled attitude. He explicitly acknowledged the reality that misogyny is more common among said people.

It seems only the regressive left are struggling to address and confront this issue.

Which is ironic, because while the left at large is so reticent to go near this topic the whole debate is being dominated by the far right. The cowardice of the left is directly strengthening the far right.

Which is clearly not a good thing.

It seems we have growing polar opposite political extremes dominating the discourse.

If you're a denier of inconvenient or uncomfortable truths, then you're part of the problem. Likewise, if you just can't stand brown people.

Accept Europe has a problem, discuss it even handledly and openly. Then we can bring about changes which will end these issues, and help the people who need helping - to a degree which will be hopefully brought about by some kind of consensus rather than the brow beating of one political extreme or the other.

Great post.
 
Well it's like the boy who cried wolf, isn't it? They're so busy stirring up dubious racial shit that when there's a legitimate story, people are legitimately sceptical. No, I'd be as unlikely as you to believe a story about Muslims that appeared only in the Daily Mail or similar.

The point I was making was probably better explained by just pointing to the term Maajid Nawaz coined: the regressive left.

The term "regressive left" actually highlights at least one important issue which I agree with but it is, unfortunately, just another vague term designed as - or at least hijacked to be used as - an insult which right wingers whip out to discredit someone with non sympathetic beliefs. I've been indirectly accused of some socialist leanings because people have a hard time dealing with the fact that not everyone sits on an extreme side of the fence.

And that's the other issue here: there's too much tribalism that goes on in this country - these threads being a fantastic example - which leads to loyalties being given where they're undeserved or even unneeded. People are so focused on winning the debate within their own little worlds that the actual resolution of any situation comes secondary to that.
 
I grew up nextdoor to a lovely Iraqi family, wife was a Christian, husband was a Shia. Neither were particularly religious, both were educated. I grew up playing with their grandson.

Doesn't mean I'm blind to the fact that there is an issue with immigration from that nation, and others like it, into the EU. Culturally and religiously these nations are very different from ours, mass immigration from these places can bring with it serious social issues.

Especially if most of the migrants are unskilled young men, who hold highly backwards views about women - doubly so if they're non Muslim women.

Your comment is a poor riposte that seeks to gloss over this issue as if it's just the blanket demonisation of all Muslims borne out of bigotry.

It's not. It's a very real and literal problem that is causing issues in Europe at present, as evidenced by the example in the OP.

I was speaking to a Syrian on reddit recently, who sought asylum in the Netherlands early in the war in Syria, and he himself said he felt that the situation had grown out of control, even stating that he felt in danger from other migrants/refugees. He acknowledged all the problems that mass migration from Middle Eastern and North African nations bring with them, particularly re integration and assimilation. He expressed despair and frustration that he knew of many migrants who hadn't gone to anywhere near the lengths he had to assimilate into the Netherlands, and instead held an often insular and entitled attitude. He explicitly acknowledged the reality that misogyny is more common among said people.

It seems only the regressive left are struggling to address and confront this issue.

Which is ironic, because while the left at large is so reticent to go near this topic the whole debate is being dominated by the far right. The cowardice of the left is directly strengthening the far right.

Which is clearly not a good thing.

It seems we have growing polar opposite political extremes dominating the discourse.

If you're a denier of inconvenient or uncomfortable truths, then you're part of the problem. Likewise, if you just can't stand brown people.

Accept Europe has a problem, discuss it even handledly and openly. Then we can bring about changes which will end these issues, and help the people who need helping - to a degree which will be hopefully brought about by some kind of consensus rather than the brow beating of one political extreme or the other.

A good post. There's good immigration and bad immigration IMO and just because someone says that there is both good and bad immigration doesn't automatically make themselves a racist. Our friend totallyweird said on another post that immigration has had a positive effect in Gorton but as someone who has lived in Gorton and Abbey Hey for 15 years, I don't think you can say it has had a wholly positive or wholly negative impact. On my street there isn't an issue - we have a Chinese family, a Muslim family, and an Indian family (not sure what religion they are) who have just moved in next door to the Muslim family. Everyone gets on and the biggest issue on the street amongst the residents is to do with certain people parking outside other people's houses but the guilty parties are white.
 
The term "regressive left" actually highlights at least one important issue which I agree with but it is, unfortunately, just another vague term designed as - or at least hijacked to be used as - an insult which right wingers whip out to discredit someone with non sympathetic beliefs. I've been indirectly accused of some socialist leanings because people have a hard time dealing with the fact that not everyone sits on an extreme side of the fence.

And that's the other issue here: there's too much tribalism that goes on in this country - these threads being a fantastic example - which leads to loyalties being given where they're undeserved or even unneeded. People are so focused on winning the debate within their own little worlds that the actual resolution of any situation comes secondary to that.
A very fair post and it is the problem with politics, really came out of the Bush Junior campaign in the US and has been adopted everywhere - being in opposition means in opposition to everything.
 
A very fair post and it is the problem with politics, really came out of the Bush Junior campaign in the US and has been adopted everywhere - being in opposition means in opposition to everything.

People invest emotionally in everything. Tory's vs Labour, right vs left, red vs blue, coke vs Pepsi, Beatles vs Stones. It's not enough for someone to have an opinion or preference any more, it has to be one that undermines the opposing view. Donald Trump gained a bit of a following by going around, not offering anything to the debate but just loudly ridiculing the opposition.

People actually think "sitting on the fence" is an insult and anything other than considering other viewpoints and showing that basic human understanding which many have forgotten about; empathy. You have to choose a side and you're not allowed to have a crisis of faith in your belief, otherwise you're weak. Yes I'm drawing parallels.

I'm just sick of people getting their knickers in a twist because I pointed out the hypocrisy using a newspaper with a reputation for unreliable sports reporting for their reporting on serious global issues.
 
as someone who has lived in Gorton and Abbey Hey for 15 years, I don't think you can say it has had a wholly positive or wholly negative impact. On my street there isn't an issue - we have a Chinese family, a Muslim family, and an Indian family (not sure what religion they are) who have just moved in next door to the Muslim family. Everyone gets on and the biggest issue on the street amongst the residents is to do with certain people parking outside other people's houses but the guilty parties are white.

The most realistic portrayal of British multiculturalism on this site or, at least, this is the post that aligns with my experience.
 

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