Good Humans vs Sh*t Humans...

[wattle]

For those saying you can’t love animals if you eat meat are talking bollox. Eating meat is natural to humans. If you can afford it you can choose what type of meat to eat. For example, I only y meat from my local farm shop where I know the animals are cared for and killed humanly. I won’t eat anything young such as lamb because it upsets me to think of it. But I’d never turn away anything if we go out to someone’s to eat out of politeness. I love animals as much as humans, if not more at times. Am I a hypocrite- probably yes. But I’d say so are the whole population in some way or other. Does it mean I don’t love animals - No it doesn’t at all. I was a vegetarian for 8 years But when me and my wife found out our 2 year old wasn’t getting the balanced diet he needed and was getting ill a lot we changed. You should have seen how he gobbled down his first meet Bologna’s. We felt terribly guilty. So there are valid reasons why animal lovers eat certain meets.

 

[RabidCity]

For those saying you can’t love animals if you eat meat are talking bollox. Eating meat is natural to humans. If you can afford it you can choose what type of meat to eat. For example, I only y meat from my local farm shop where I know the animals are cared for and killed humanly. I won’t eat anything young such as lamb because it upsets me to think of it. But I’d never turn away anything if we go out to someone’s to eat out of politeness. I love animals as much as humans, if not more at times. Am I a hypocrite- probably yes. But I’d say so are the whole population in some way or other. Does it mean I don’t love animals - No it doesn’t at all. I was a vegetarian for 8 years But when me and my wife found out our 2 year old wasn’t getting the balanced diet he needed and was getting ill a lot we changed. You should have seen how he gobbled down his first meet Bologna’s. We felt terribly guilty. So there are valid reasons why animal lovers eat certain meets.

There’s no nutritional deficiencies from eating vegetarian but you need to eat the right foods. What it comes down to is
If the food tastes the same, costs the same and has the same nutrition, would you object to a meat free lifestyle which doesn’t involve the slaughter of animals? This is the choice your son will be making and as the father of 2 young children myself - I don’t want to explain why I buried my head in the sand despite the overwhelming evidence of how unnecessary animal agriculture is and how devastating it is to the environment


Also what you consider is humane might not be what the local farmer considers humane. As said previously cows are forcibly impregnanted, separated from their calves after being born, then industrially milked until it stops, then they repeat the cycle. As a parent myself, i can’t bear that thought. Imagine the emotional distress of this process when there is a completely easy, nutritional alternative that involves soaking oats in water.

this is UK farming standards -

There is no humane way, it just needs to stop.

 

[LangleyBlue1970]

I've read alot today about a young girl who was killed in a hit and run on Monday, and died early today. The driver jumped a red light, speeding, no insurance and basically shouldn't have been there. 14 year old with everything to live for.
I hope whatever crappy sentence our justice system with no doubt dish up, every minute of it is spent in a living hell.

 

[Stuuuuuu]

So, I take it you're vegan. You have NO animal products in your household, what you drive, what you wear, anything...?

That's right - as far as I know. I try my best to avoid all animal products and have lived a very healthy life this way for 25 years. I can't think of any animal products in my life but I accept that there may be occasions when it's unavoidable. For instance, I have to travel to get to work and other places. Can I be sure that if I get on a train / bus etc., that there's no leather or other animal product used somewhere on it? No. But this is a problem with society at large and not a choice I have made. But the true impact comes from the choices I make when buying food and clothes.

The crux of this discussion is that you began the thread with a post about animal cruelty and how 'bad' people can be but then went on to state that you pay people to do equally bad things to animals out of choice (i.e. you don't have to).

Do I think you are a 'bad' person? No.

Do I think that it's something you just might not have thought about that much? Possibly.

But I think this is the case with most people and I can understand it. For the first chunk of my life, I also paid people to carry out acts of unspeakable cruelty upon young animals. Why? I guess it's simply because I was brought up to see this as 'normal' and therefore OK.

But it's only when I began to learn more about animal agriculture that I made the decision to reject it. I now lead a healthy, productive life whilst saving the lives of an estimated 100 animals every year.

There's a wealth of information out there now - videos, websites etc. and that's why veganism is the fastest growing movement there is.

Here is a short web page with a summary of some reasons why people choose to reject unnecessary animal cruelty: https://www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/why-go-vegan

 

[Stuuuuuu]

For those saying you can’t love animals if you eat meat are talking bollox. Eating meat is natural to humans. If you can afford it you can choose what type of meat to eat. For example, I only y meat from my local farm shop where I know the animals are cared for and killed humanly. I won’t eat anything young such as lamb because it upsets me to think of it. But I’d never turn away anything if we go out to someone’s to eat out of politeness. I love animals as much as humans, if not more at times. Am I a hypocrite- probably yes. But I’d say so are the whole population in some way or other. Does it mean I don’t love animals - No it doesn’t at all. I was a vegetarian for 8 years But when me and my wife found out our 2 year old wasn’t getting the balanced diet he needed and was getting ill a lot we changed. You should have seen how he gobbled down his first meet Bologna’s. We felt terribly guilty. So there are valid reasons why animal lovers eat certain meets.

Hi Wattle.

Can you please explain the process of 'killing humanely'? And would you be happy for this to be carried out on your family members or perhaps your pets?

Out of interest, what is it exactly that upsets you about eating lamb?

Are you sure that the whole population are hypocrites? I'm not sure that vegans are.

Can you explain how eating meat provided a balanced diet, i.e. which specific nutrients were missing before?

Thanks.

 

[Bigga]

Thought I'd give this a bump with an AWESOME story...


Just goes to show how being nice can pay off, big time!

Last I heard it was at $33k, but it seems it's over $45k now.

Good for him!

 

[inchy14]

I respect your right to an opinion but I have to say that I don't find it to be following logic.

"Eating fish or chicken does not equate to eating cats or dogs."
Most people (in this country) would agree with you as clearly people eat the former but not the latter. But what is the basis for this view? The way I see it, they are all sentient creatures who want to live; they all feel pain; they all experience a wide range of emotions; they all want to live. I would genuinely like to know what is the basis for treating some animals badly but others well. Is it based on their level of intelligence? If so, why does intelligence give more rights? Could we apply this to humans and give more rights to those with higher intelligence and mistreat those with learning disabilities?

"You can still have a connection with another lifeform that's not your own that you're not tempted to consume at convenience."
So are the rights of animals dependent on their relationship to human beings? Why? What makes humans the factor in this? If I have a connection with another person or animal, why should that give them more rights than the one I don't have a connection with?

"It's silly to say a meat eater cannot be an animal lover or have respect for them in the main."
Is it respectful to keep an animal pregnant for most of its life then forceably separate its young and place it to live in a crate until it becomes so weak that its legs break beneath it (veal production) or to fill a large plastic bag with male chicks until they suffocate (male chicks are useless in the egg industry so are killed by suffocation or by being thrown live into a grinding machine), or to castrate piglets with a tool that looks like a pair of pliers - with no anaesthetic whatsoever etc. etc. That's just the tip of the iceberg; I could go on all day.

If someone pays for this to happen, I don't see how they can logically describe themselves as an 'animal lover.' Why not just be honest and say that you don't care about animals used for food?

"What's your opinion on intelligent life, like dolphins eating fish, but then protects whales from sharks and play with Humans??"
My take on it is that they are carnivores, driven by instinct. There is a wealth of evidence that humans, historically, are largely herbivorous, possibly scavenging small amounts of meat very occasionally. It's clear that we are healthier eating plants. BUT even if we were carnivores or even if you argue that we are omnivores, that's OK (there is a debate to be had but I guess that's a separate discussion) - but we can't reasonably describe ourselves as 'animal lovers' if we support the animal agriculture industry which systematically causes unimaginable suffering. The point is that all animals need to eat to live. If they have evolved to instinctively eat other creatures, it's horrible but unavoidable. However, doing so when is is avoidable is obviously the key difference. And we don't have to treat animals the way we do in animal agriculture; it's a choice based on profit to use intensive farming methods which involve disgusting welfare standards. Or we could just avoid it altogether, which leads to better health, a greatly improved environment and, of course, a way, way, way better deal for animals.

Surely it's better to just be honest and say, "I don't care about animals except when I emotionally benefit from it."

Loved watching Britain’s got talent as the judges all cried about a video showing cruelty to dogs yet then the were all in the advert at the break for M&S eating pork sausages. Hypocrisy or what!! What’s the difference lol. Both animals at the end of the day.

 

[hilts]

If you eat animals you’re a ****, I eat animals I’m a ****, you can try and justify it as much as you want, we need protein, it’s natural instincts, animals eat other animals and would eat you etc. But you know better so tell your story walking and man up.

 

[Phil1]

If you eat animals you’re a ****, I eat animals I’m a ****, you can try and justify it as much as you want, we need protein, it’s natural instincts, animals eat other animals and would eat you etc. But you know better so tell your story walking and man up.

Yeah, I came to terms with being a **** a long time ago so eating meat is just another string to my bow.
Though I suffer with gout quite badly so I suppose there’s a bit of karma for the poor animals.

 

[Bigga]

This could have easily gone in the 'Karenism' thread, but I chose here.

This woman is NUTS!!