Government rejects Alan Turing appeal

Gelsons Dad said:
Whilst I have the utmost respect for Turning's work and contribution to computing, I have to say I agree with the lords on this. He chose to disregard the law and as such was prosecuted and convicted.
The specific law is not relevant to the discussion, only that it was law at the time and he knowingly chose to break it.
If you disagree with a law, campaign to change it. Don't just ignore it. Society evolves and so do it's laws but the principle must remain.
I despise anyone who abides a law because it's a law.
 
Skashion said:
Gelsons Dad said:
Whilst I have the utmost respect for Turning's work and contribution to computing, I have to say I agree with the lords on this. He chose to disregard the law and as such was prosecuted and convicted.
The specific law is not relevant to the discussion, only that it was law at the time and he knowingly chose to break it.
If you disagree with a law, campaign to change it. Don't just ignore it. Society evolves and so do it's laws but the principle must remain.
I despise anyone who abides a law because it's a law.

Despise?
Fucking hell that a bit rough
 
BoyBlue_1985 said:
Despise?
Fucking hell that a bit rough
Not at all in my opinion.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Niemoller
 
Gelsons Dad said:
Whilst I have the utmost respect for Turning's work and contribution to computing, I have to say I agree with the lords on this. He chose to disregard the law and as such was prosecuted and convicted.
The specific law is not relevant to the discussion, only that it was law at the time and he knowingly chose to break it.
If you disagree with a law, campaign to change it. Don't just ignore it. Society evolves and so do it's laws but the principle must remain.

It may have been the law of the land..... but that law did not allow two consenting adults the right to have a sexual relationship in private. If being in love was deemed as a crime then something was very wrong with it and needs addressing today.
 
Skashion said:
BoyBlue_1985 said:
Despise?
Fucking hell that a bit rough
Not at all in my opinion.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Niemoller

What nonsense!

Without law we cannot have society. That in no way means it shouldn't be challenged. Challenging the law in order to change it is not the same as ignoring it.

and what on earth does your quote have to do with democratic law?
 
Mad Eyed Screamer said:
Skashion said:
Gelsons Dad said:
Whilst I have the utmost respect for Turning's work and contribution to computing, I have to say I agree with the lords on this. He chose to disregard the law and as such was prosecuted and convicted.
The specific law is not relevant to the discussion, only that it was law at the time and he knowingly chose to break it.
If you disagree with a law, campaign to change it. Don't just ignore it. Society evolves and so do it's laws but the principle must remain.
I despise anyone who abides a law because it's a law.

It may have been the law of the land..... but that law did not allow two consenting adults the right to have a sexual relationship in private. If being in love was deemed as a crime then something was very wrong with it and needs addressing today.

Does that include every other single person it affected?
Lots of laws have changed over the years you cant parden all people who may have fallen foul of the law at the time
 
Skashion said:
BoyBlue_1985 said:
Despise?
Fucking hell that a bit rough
Not at all in my opinion.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak out because I was Protestant.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
Niemoller
person_stalin16.jpg


12906w_erasurerevelation_stalinp2.jpg
 
Mad Eyed Screamer said:
Gelsons Dad said:
Whilst I have the utmost respect for Turning's work and contribution to computing, I have to say I agree with the lords on this. He chose to disregard the law and as such was prosecuted and convicted.
The specific law is not relevant to the discussion, only that it was law at the time and he knowingly chose to break it.
If you disagree with a law, campaign to change it. Don't just ignore it. Society evolves and so do it's laws but the principle must remain.

It may have been the law of the land..... but that law did not allow two consenting adults the right to have a sexual relationship in private. If being in love was deemed as a crime then something was very wrong with it and needs addressing today.

You are missing the point entirely. Should we apply todays laws retrospectively to everyone who lived before us?

Do we need to go back throughout the archives and convict almost everyone of historical note for falling foul of todays laws?

You can't do it one way and not the other.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
What happened to Alan Turing was disgraceful and shameful but I agree with this decision.

We cannot take our contemporary views and laws and impose them on the past. To do so seems almost Orwellian and sinister.

What, if for some reason, the age of consent was raised to 19 in the future. Would people want anyone who had sex with an 18 year old in the past charged with statutory rape? No, of course not. The law as it stands on a particular day should be a matter of fact, not opinion at a later date as to whether it was a 'good' law or not.

It is right that people are aware that the laws as they stand are immutable. Any doubt with regards to that will undermine the rule of law and make people less inclined to obey the law in the hope that any conviction will get overturned at a later date as society comes round to their way of thinking. People must have a strong degree of certainty when it comes to the law of the land.

Lastly, whenever I think of Alan Turing I always feel a little sad. What happened to him was tragic and most certainly to any right thinking person today, anachronistic. It angers me that the law was as it was in the 50's, but it does serve to remind me of how far we have come and how, in so many ways, we are a much better society now. Changing laws retrospectively would allow these injustices to be swept under the carpet.

To my mind Alan Turing was a brilliant man who did as much to win the war as any other individual and the law as it stood then was wrong. Changing the law retrospectively will do nothing to alter those facts in my eyes. I'm afraid to say this wasn't a miscarriage of justice but instead a law that was, by modern standards, wrong. On that basis the verdict should stand and Turing should continue to act as a reminder of how much more tolerant we have become as a society - a fitting legacy and one that I am sure he would be proud of.


Reading the first bit, I was actually going to disagree with you Gordonbennettsmoustache (and in the strongest possible terms young man ;-)) and then I read it all and thought you actually make some very good points, none more so than the very last one mate, I'm an open-minded kind of guy and would never have allowed such a law in the first place (if it was my decision that is) but I think I can live with how you've expressed it there, well written bud.
 

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