Gundogan as an attacking midfielder

[Tim of the Oak]

I don't think he made it up, he got confused with the numbers that, in 70% of the games where we drop points, he is in the team.

That in itself doesn't really tell you that much but if you look at the more important stat that our win percentage of 92% drops to about 63% when he's playing as an attacking midfielder then you can clearly that he makes us a much worse side (at AM).

When he plays we often have KDB missing that weakens the side.

 

[Fame Monster]

When he plays we often have KDB missing that weakens the side.

True but that is a drastic drop and I can't imagine it's anywhere as bad as that for any other player.

 

[Rolee]

I don't think he made it up, he got confused with the numbers that, in 70% of the games where we drop points, he is in the team.

That in itself doesn't really tell you that much but if you look at the more important stat that our win percentage of 92% drops to about 63% when he's playing as an attacking midfielder then you can clearly that he makes us a much worse side (at AM).

Where are you getting 92% from? Is that all comps? Our league win percentage was 84% last season. Gundo has played attacking midfield 30 times and we've won 21 times since his return from injury, that's 70%.

 

[mosssideblue]

Gundogan is a great pro, he's perhaps a victim of the curse of being able to function in numerous roles in the team so when it goes wrong for him it can go very wrong.

For me Gundo is best deployed either as a conventional holding mf (i.e 6, Ferna or Rodders) OR as an attacking 10 or false 9 as we have seen him do in CL games to great effect.

The position that he really struggles with is the 7/8 'pivot' where his tendency to slow things down affects the balance of the whole team. KDB & Dave are still the best 2 in that role. I think Foden needs a crack in that role as backup now and hopefully thats something that Pep will get. Pep seems to be very loyal to his reliable players and will take some shifting but maybe he's seen the need for a little bit of a change of emphasiss now.

We had a bad day at the office with 5 key players not available for selection, along with Walker who was ill so lets cut the lads a bit of slack here.

There are a lot of points to play for including home and away agin the dippers so I'm not throwing the towel in just yet.

Totally agree. Shit happens and no doubt the dippers will have some moments themselves this season.
A long way to go

 

[Fame Monster]

Where are you getting 92% from? Is that all comps? Our league win percentage was 84% last season. Gundo has played attacking midfield 30 times and we've won 21 times since his return from injury, that's 70%.

All comps (counting penalty shoot-out wins as wins although that makes little difference to the percentage drop when he's AM in the team).

 

[WallyA]

I'm gonna disagree with alot of posters here but I don't think the problem is playing Gundogan and Silva together. For example, if Gundogan drops next to Rodri so we have a
2-1 shape, this can work... BUT it does not work with fullbacks who are playing inverted primarily.

----------------Silva-----------------

----Gundogan----------Rodri

If you play wide attacking fullbacks then I think you give the wingers more options, Sterling feels useless when stuck outwide, and Mahrez could really use Cancelo to go wide to let him come inside and actually be involved in the play.

 

[Shaelumstash]

Prob too soon after yesterdays game to get reasoned arguments atm. I will leave you and others to continue scapegoating one player believing he was the sole reason for all 11 having an off game. Only on BM

Eh? Who said he was the sole reason?

I’ve never been a fan of Gundogan as an 8 for us. It doesn’t work. He’s poor there. I’ve been saying it for 3 years, it’s not a knee jerk reaction.

It turns out, the statistics back it up. Over 3 years, he’s played around 45 games as an 8 and we’ve dropped points in around half of those games.

This is a team who’s averaged 98 points over the last 2 seasons. We don’t drop many points.

I’m sorry if it hurts your feelings to say we’re a worse side with Gundogan as an 8, but unfortunately the evidence suggests we are.

 

[Rolee]

Eh? Who said he was the sole reason?

I’ve never been a fan of Gundogan as an 8 for us. It doesn’t work. He’s poor there. I’ve been saying it for 3 years, it’s not a knee jerk reaction.

It turns out, the statistics back it up. Over 3 years, he’s played around 45 games as an 8 and we’ve dropped points in around half of those games.

This is a team who’s averaged 98 points over the last 2 seasons. We don’t drop many points.

I’m sorry if it hurts your feelings to say we’re a worse side with Gundogan as an 8, but unfortunately the evidence suggests we are.

Dropped points, so I take it you're referring to league games? He's started 30 league games at 8 ane we've won 21 of them.

 

[mosssideblue]

Eh? Who said he was the sole reason?

I’ve never been a fan of Gundogan as an 8 for us. It doesn’t work. He’s poor there. I’ve been saying it for 3 years, it’s not a knee jerk reaction.

It turns out, the statistics back it up. Over 3 years, he’s played around 45 games as an 8 and we’ve dropped points in around half of those games.

This is a team who’s averaged 98 points over the last 2 seasons. We don’t drop many points.

I’m sorry if it hurts your feelings to say we’re a worse side with Gundogan as an 8, but unfortunately the evidence suggests we are.

Dont apologise, I simply think you are incorrect with his value to us when he plays

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

The problem is about the balance. If you play a very slow midfield trio of players you will always do badly in modern football where pace is everything. Gundo is superb at number 6, especially in tough European matches when we want to slow things down, Rodri is also superb at number 6, and David Silva is one of the world's greatest players. But they can't play together against a fast counter attacking team. It was a strange decision to play that formation. For some reason after the match Pep was only asked about the Walker and Cancelo decisions. That shows how stupid some of the sports hacks are.
Pep makes very few bad decisons and when he does they stand out like a sore thumb. We also got it wrong in the 3-0 Anfield CL defeat in 2018. Gundo played alongside Silva (and Ferdy) in midfield and Liverpool tore us apart in the first half (it was similar during the recent Norwich match). Let's hope it's the last time we see this experiment.