Happy 75th Birthday

[KS55]

Independent decision making only works if it goes hand-in-hand with an adequate budget though. One of the Tories' flagship policies was more powers to local authorities, and I'm sure on paper and in law, they delivered that. And then they slashed everyone's budget to the point where the only decision they could make was whether to collect the bins every other week or every three weeks.

This slashing of LA budgets—- did your local tax go down?

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

The smallest to what though?

I took it to be the smallest of any health system in the whole wide world!

 

[blue44]

I got my little pin badge free at work yesterday !

 

[threespires]

That report is a decent summary. Germany is a stand out example; not all in their garden is wonderful but there are some key differences to UK.
— German funding is largely through insurance rather than tax.
— Hospitals are provided by a range of organisations such as local authorities, insurance companies, charities etc. There is nothing similar to NHS trusts.
— Patients have to pay for their drugs and meals while in hospital.
—GPs in Germany are paid much less than here.
— For Day to day treatment patients have to buy their prescriptions and, I think, pay a fee for a visit to a GP.
You can see from these few facts that German healthcare is organised completely differently to the UK and this may account for the difference in budgets. Germany is currently grappling with insurance premiums that are for ever rising but still fall short of what is needed to maintain current budgets.

There's a lot of it that was interesting. I was actually quite surprised by the relatively small difference in the funding mix between the UK and the EU14 average, albeit that doesn't take into account variances by country. My main reason for posting that report is it's an interesting read but in itself it probably poses more questions than it answers which is indicative of the fact we need serious people leading this debate rather than clowns, grifters and ideologues. The other thing that struck me was that we actually closed some of that raw funding gap as a result of relatively higher pandemic spending. However 'catch up' spending is less efficient and the less said about the decision making and execution on significant parts of that spend during the pandemic the better.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Is it the model or is it simply the level of investment? This is a good read.

How does UK health spending compare across Europe over the past decade?

Icaro Rebolledo and Anita Charlesworth use five charts to compare UK health care spending with EU countries before the pandemic.

www.health.org.uk

This stood out to me:

• Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).

Isn't that the story of UK in the last 10 years. Lack of investment, be it NHS, Water, Education, Public Services. Is the lack of investment what is contributing to just about everything being broken?

 

[threespires]

This stood out to me:

• Over the past decade, the UK had a lower level of capital investment in health care compared with the EU14 countries for which data are available. Between 2010 and 2019, average health capital investment in the UK was £5.8bn a year. If the UK had matched other EU14 countries’ average investment in health capital (as a share of GDP), the UK would have invested £33bn more between 2010 and 2019 (around 55% higher than actual investment during that period).

Isn't that the story of UK in the last 10 years. Lack of investment, be it NHS, Water, Education, Public Services. Is the lack of investment what is contributing to just about everything being broken?

One of the great claims for privatisation is that it allows significant investment which in turn creates greater efficiencies and better services etc. Except the prevailing culture is sweat the asset, extract maximum value and leave someone else to pick up the pieces in the absence of any long term planning or focus on sustainability.

 

[Saddleworth2]

One of the great claims for privatisation is that it allows significant investment which in turn creates greater efficiencies and better services etc. Except the prevailing culture is sweat the asset, extract maximum value and leave someone else to pick up the pieces in the absence of any long term planning or focus on sustainability.

Privatisation can work when there is strong well funded oversight and a clear operating framework. None of that is in place thanks to our Government. Its basically a licence to do whatever they like just now.

 

[Bill Walker]

Australia tried to recreate the NHS but gave up. No other western democracy has such a system.

No idea what you mean really.
We have superb free health care. I've had 2 big surgeries done, didn't cost me a penny and I can see a doctor tomorrow if I want.

 

[KS55]

No idea what you mean really.
We have superb free health care. I've had 2 big surgeries done, didn't cost me a penny and I can see a doctor tomorrow if I want.

Australia attempted to create a system wholly funded by taxation and that is what they abandoned. The big difference from the NHS is in funding.
1. Insurance for Private healthcare is common in Aus and is partly funded by tax relief.
2. Co payment is common. You can use your private insurance in a public hospital. Co payment is illegal here.
3. Medicare. Free treatment for eligible citizens funded by tax, but not everyone is eligible.
4. Healthcare is funded:
41% by Aus Gov.
27% by state govs
17% by individuals where treatment is only partially gov funded
9% by insurance.
5. Hospitals are administered and managed by local authorities, not by the health system, as trusts are here.
In UK taxation pays for the lot (except a small private sector) and NHS delivers and manages the lot.

 

[Bill Walker]

3. Medicare. Free treatment for eligible citizens funded by tax, but not everyone is eligible.
4. Healthcare is funded:
41% by Aus Gov.
27% by state govs
17% by individuals where treatment is only partially gov funded

Sorry mate your completely wrong.
Medicare is for all citizens, rich or poor. Just like the UK.
We pay a Medicare levy on top of income tax to the tax office to pay for it.
There are private hospitals for people with private health insurance but insurance is optional like the UK.

Google it if you don't believe me.

What is Medicare?​

Medicare is the insurance scheme that gives Australian citizens and permanent residents access to healthcare, including a wide range of health and hospital services at no cost.

Medicare is funded by Australian taxpayers who pay 2% of their taxable income to help cover costs. Depending on your financial circumstamces, you may be eligible for a reduction or exemption from the Medicare levy.