Hillsborough - The Search for Truth

[Scouse_Jimi]

If there was a like button Prestwich Blue - I'd hit it. Great post mate.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

If there was a like button Prestwich Blue - I'd hit it. Great post mate.

I have to confess that I used to think the same way as Castiel, that the stories in the press were true and it was mainly the fault of the fans, who forced the gate. And that was even after the Taylor Report.

Then someone pulled me up about it so I read Taylor from cover to cover and was shocked at how ignorant I'd been. From then on I've been quite zealous about making sure people understand the truth. If there was blame to apportion to the fans then I wouldn't be afraid to say that.

The worst you could say on that score is that we, as fans, brought about the circumstances that led to fences, pens and heavy policing on ourselves, thanks to the behaviour of a significant minority in the 25 years leading up to Hillsborough. And Liverpool fans were a part of that without doubt, as were fans of many other clubs.

 

[cibaman]

If there was a like button Prestwich Blue - I'd hit it. Great post mate.

I have to confess that I used to think the same way as Castiel, that the stories in the press were true and it was mainly the fault of the fans, who forced the gate. And that was even after the Taylor Report.

Then someone pulled me up about it so I read Taylor from cover to cover and was shocked at how ignorant I'd been. From then on I've been quite zealous about making sure people understand the truth. If there was blame to apportion to the fans then I wouldn't be afraid to say that.

The worst you could say on that score is that we, as fans, brought about the circumstances that led to fences, pens and heavy policing on ourselves, thanks to the behaviour of a significant minority in the 25 years leading up to Hillsborough. And Liverpool fans were a part of that without doubt, as were fans of many other clubs.

I do think that attitudes towards Hillsborough were at least partly shaped by Hysel. People were so willing to accept the police and politicians' version of events because it tied in with what they'd seen and read about Hysel four years earlier.

Even when it became clear that the fans were not responsible for Hillsborough there seemed to be an initial reluctance for people outside of Liverpool to support the campaign for justice. At least partly because there seemed to be a contradiction between the campaign for justice over Hillsborough, with what seemed like a desire to forget about Hysel.

I do think that if Hysel hadn't happened, the campaign for justice would have enjoyed widespread support much sooner than it did..

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

If there was a like button Prestwich Blue - I'd hit it. Great post mate.

I have to confess that I used to think the same way as Castiel, that the stories in the press were true and it was mainly the fault of the fans, who forced the gate. And that was even after the Taylor Report.

Then someone pulled me up about it so I read Taylor from cover to cover and was shocked at how ignorant I'd been. From then on I've been quite zealous about making sure people understand the truth. If there was blame to apportion to the fans then I wouldn't be afraid to say that.

The worst you could say on that score is that we, as fans, brought about the circumstances that led to fences, pens and heavy policing on ourselves, thanks to the behaviour of a significant minority in the 25 years leading up to Hillsborough. And Liverpool fans were a part of that without doubt, as were fans of many other clubs.

I do think that attitudes towards Hillsborough were at least partly shaped by Hysel. People were so willing to accept the police and politicians' version of events because it tied in with what they'd seen and read about Hysel four years earlier.

Even when it became clear that the fans were not responsible for Hillsborough there seemed to be an initial reluctance for people outside of Liverpool to support the campaign for justice. At least partly because there seemed to be a contradiction between the campaign for justice over Hillsborough, with what seemed like a desire to forget about Hysel.

I do think that if Hysel hadn't happened, the campaign for justice would have enjoyed widespread support much sooner than it did..

I think this is a well considered point.

 

[DTKOAG]

If there was a like button Prestwich Blue - I'd hit it. Great post mate.

I have to confess that I used to think the same way as Castiel, that the stories in the press were true and it was mainly the fault of the fans, who forced the gate. And that was even after the Taylor Report.

Then someone pulled me up about it so I read Taylor from cover to cover and was shocked at how ignorant I'd been. From then on I've been quite zealous about making sure people understand the truth. If there was blame to apportion to the fans then I wouldn't be afraid to say that.

The worst you could say on that score is that we, as fans, brought about the circumstances that led to fences, pens and heavy policing on ourselves, thanks to the behaviour of a significant minority in the 25 years leading up to Hillsborough. And Liverpool fans were a part of that without doubt, as were fans of many other clubs.

I do think that attitudes towards Hillsborough were at least partly shaped by Hysel. People were so willing to accept the police and politicians' version of events because it tied in with what they'd seen and read about Hysel four years earlier.

Even when it became clear that the fans were not responsible for Hillsborough there seemed to be an initial reluctance for people outside of Liverpool to support the campaign for justice. At least partly because there seemed to be a contradiction between the campaign for justice over Hillsborough, with what seemed like a desire to forget about Hysel.

I do think that if Hysel hadn't happened, the campaign for justice would have enjoyed widespread support much sooner than it did..

Very well put cibaman

 

[IH8MUFC]

I've never been to Hillsborough, so my question is, was it easy to see that there was a large amount of people in front of them? Couldn't the fans at the back just back off? Or back then was the stadium designs so poor that it was hard to tell exactly how many people were in front of them?

 

[IH8MUFC]

I was only 17 at the time. As a neutral, I didnt enjoy the experience - which is why,fortunately, I turned down the chance to go the following year.................

17 at the time you say ??

Hmmmmm? Posted after the FA Cup win in 2011

Im 52yrs old. I was at the '81 Final stood next to an old boy of 8oyrs bedecked in City memorabelia who cried when we lost. He made me promise I'd think of him when we won it again - never knew his name.
I thought of him at the final whistle...................and couldnt keep the tears in. Rest easy now mate.

Maybe he just has Alzheimer's can't remember if he was born in 59 or 72

 

[Wilf Wild 1937]

I've not read all the pages of this thread so sorry if this has already been mentioned.
I've only been to Hillsborough once: the season AFTER the disaster. I was queuing up to get into the Leppings Lane seats along with
loads of other Blues. The turnstiles were clearly marked AWAY FANS only. A distance away there were further turnstiles clearly marked
HOME FANS only. A trickle of Wednesday fans were queuing at these turnstiles. The police weren't happy about the numbers trying to
get into the City seats despite the fact that we were quite orderly. They moved in on horseback and told some of us to move down to
the other turnstiles. People protested that they were for the home section but the police would have none of it. They said we would be
okay to move back into the away section once inside the ground. They then started using their horses to push people towards the other
turnstiles. After we got to the other turnstiles things calmed down although there was a tension in the air with Wednesday fans at the
front of the queue and City fans behind them. After about 2-3 minutes the police realised their mistake and launched a cavalry charge
at the City fans shouting stuff like "Get back to your own section you bastards". We ran en mass back to where we had come from
originally. Thankfully the City fans were all "young lads" (at the time!) and nobody got trampled on. If it had been a mix of young and
old fans somebody could easily have been trampled on. Once inside the ground - which frankly was a cramped shithole - the police
totally lost control. As I've said most City fans that day were well behaved but there were exceptions. In front of where my group were
sat / stood there was a gang of pissed up lads who were generally being obnoxious to all around them. A solitary police woman was
sent in to calm them down: they told her to" f*** off" so she went and told her colleagues. Fearing that there might be trouble and discretion
was the better part of valour they took the lads advice and left the area to "police" another part of the stand.

I don't know what happened the day of the disaster as I wasn't there. What I do know from my own experience is that Hillsborough was a totally unsuitable venue for a semi-final and that at the time South Yorkshire Police were totally out of their depth in dealing with crowd control.
What shocked me was how poor they still were AFTER the disaster. Maybe 20 odd years later things have improved but I wouldn't go back there.

 

[mancityvstoke]

I've never been to Hillsborough, so my question is, was it easy to see that there was a large amount of people in front of them? Couldn't the fans at the back just back off? Or back then was the stadium designs so poor that it was hard to tell exactly how many people were in front of them?

I've been in the Leppings lane end......I got crushed too. People just push forward with no consideration for who is at the front.

Things were so different back then too ....jibbing in etc

So many more people than in seats and no order at all. If everyone came in late then it could be chaos.

It can still be bad now.

Look at how it was at Anfield a few season ago in the semi final of the Carling Cup late arrivals (due to accident) and we got crushed outside.

 

[bobbyowenquiff]

The Leppings Lane end was a disaster waiting to happen. Was crushed there when City played them before the disaster. Many away fans knew how dangerous it was. The South Yorkshire police ( as well as West Midlands) were a disgrace in the 70s and 80s. They treated football fans like scum and started most of the trouble. Unless you were there you can't possibly understand how badly matches were policed in those days. The other ground which was incredibly unsafe was Old Trafford. The scoreboard end had a similar design to the Leppings Lane...not enough tunnels and the risk that the pens in the centre were too packed. I remember being crushed so much (It was the Roger Palmer late equaliser match) that I had to climb over a fence into the next pen. Thank God football stadiums and the way the police behave has improved.