Holocaust Memorial Day - Monday 27 January

[metalblue]

The one thing that always strikes when I see that picture is think, what if I was in that crowd? What would I be doing?

How many of us would be that guy?

Probably not many mate in all honesty. But we would all want to think we would be that guy.

We are preprogrammed for self preservation, you only have to read reports from the camps about what people would do to their fellow prisoners just to survive - it’s fucking tragic, they must have hated themselves. I would criticise no one for it - it perhaps shows how fear makes people conform against their own morales and how extremism can flourish given the right combination of belief and fear.

 

[Ban-jani]

The one thing that always strikes when I see that picture is think, what if I was in that crowd? What would I be doing?

How many of us would be that guy?

Hardly any of us in absolute honesty, that’s one of the terrible things about it, the majority of us wouldn’t have risked ourselves and shielded Jews, wouldn’t have gone against the grain and the majority of us would have been supporting a German victory, had we been German citizens in the 30s and 40s.

Of course, it’s easy to say we wouldn’t in hindsight and obviously we cannot know what we’d do in the circumstances, without living it but most psychologists say the vast majority of people would go along with it. It’s why, whilst not on the same scale, with the same industrialisation as the Holocaust, it happens to some degree all around the world even up to the modern day.

It’s natural when looking back to either see ourselves as the hero or even the victim but viewing yourself as the perpetrator is actually healthier to ensuring you don’t become one in your own life, in the future.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

The one thing that always strikes when I see that picture is think, what if I was in that crowd? What would I be doing?

How many of us would be that guy?

It’s very hard to say Bob and the Nazis banked on millions of frightened people falling into line (as well as exploiting many people’s prejudices to turn communities against each other). Didn’t City refuse to give the Nazi salute before a preseason game in Germany in the late 30s

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Context is all - that guy might just have had a Dr's note exempting him from nazi salutes for a few days due to an rsi from doing it more than anyone else in previous weeks.

 

[BobKowalski]

Hardly any of us in absolute honesty, that’s one of the terrible things about it, the majority of us wouldn’t have risked ourselves and shielded Jews, wouldn’t have gone against the grain and the majority of us would have been supporting a German victory, had we been German citizens in the 30s and 40s.

Of course, it’s easy to say we wouldn’t in hindsight and obviously we cannot know what we’d do in the circumstances, without living it but most psychologists say the vast majority of people would go along with it. It’s why, whilst not on the same scale, with the same industrialisation as the Holocaust, it happens to some degree all around the world even up to the modern day.

It’s natural when looking back to either see ourselves as the hero or even the victim but viewing yourself as the perpetrator is actually healthier to ensuring you don’t become one in your own life, in the future.

Yeah, sobering isn’t it? We all like to imagine we would do the right thing, but then most of the people in that crowd probably thought that too.

Always bothers me that picture, that tiny voice in your head going ‘what would you do?’

Not sure I would like the answer.

 

[west didsblue]

Yeah, sobering isn’t it? We all like to imagine we would do the right thing, but then most of the people in that crowd probably thought that too.

Always bothers me that picture, that tiny voice in your head going ‘what would you do?’

Not sure I would like the answer.

In reality, I would imagine the majority of people who took huge risks to help Jews in those dark times would have outwardly conformed to what was expected of them. Any overt show of defiance against the regime, however small, would very likely be reported to the gestapo, who would have dealt with it ruthlessly.

 

[Ban-jani]

Yeah, sobering isn’t it? We all like to imagine we would do the right thing, but then most of the people in that crowd probably thought that too.

Always bothers me that picture, that tiny voice in your head going ‘what would you do?’

Not sure I would like the answer.

Your personal circumstances will influence your willingness to stick your head above the parapet and stand up against the regime.

Josef Hartinger was a lawyer in Nazi Germany and discovered the first concentration camp (I think), at Dachau. At this point the local Jews were living in awful conditions there and the odd one was being hung or shot whenever the guards felt like it.

He was absolutely horrified and tried taking the camp and local government to court over it and stood up against the national government for a period of time.

He quickly learned the whole system was corrupted, he’d never win and there were threats on his family, so he quietly disappeared to doing small claims cases.

He did stand up whilst there were threats against his own life, for enough time for it to be very courageous but he knew he had no chance eventually.

I would say he’s a hero but the only thing he really accomplished was the deaths at the camp stopped for a little while, which shouldn’t be underestimated I suppose.


P.S I think I’ve got that summmarised story correct but happy for anyone to point out where I am wrong.

 

[metalblue]

Your personal circumstances will influence your willingness to stick your head above the parapet and stand up against the regime.

Josef Hartinger was a lawyer in Nazi Germany and discovered the first concentration camp (I think), at Dachau. At this point the local Jews were living in awful conditions there and the odd one was being hung or shot whenever the guards felt like it.

He was absolutely horrified and tried taking the camp and local government to court over it and stood up against the national government for a period of time.

He quickly learned the whole system was corrupted, he’d never win and there were threats on his family, so he quietly disappeared to doing small claims cases.

He did stand up whilst there were threats against his own life, for enough time for it to be very courageous but he knew he had no chance eventually.

I would say he’s a hero but the only thing he really accomplished was the deaths at the camp stopped for a little while, which shouldn’t be underestimated I suppose.


P.S I think I’ve got that summmarised story correct but happy for anyone to point out where I am wrong.

I wasn’t familiar with this story, much to my discredit. Thanks Ban, I’ll try and find a book on it for my next holiday read.

 

[Ban-jani]

I wasn’t familiar with this story, much to my discredit. Thanks Ban, I’ll try and find a book on it for my next holiday read.

BBC Two - Rise of the Nazis, Origins, The First Six Months in Power, The prosecutor who began to fight back

A new camp opens in Dachau and Josef Hartinger is about to investigate its first deaths.

www.bbc.co.uk

This is what I saw it on mate, definitely worth a watch.

In fact I may watch again.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Surprised no-one had bumped this one by now.

Just awful still to consider these events.

I'd like to think we are combatting fascism in the world but I fear populism's rise has been hijacked by the neo-fascists.

Dreadful footage doing the rounds today and a random attack om two orthodox Jewish men last night - both beaten and punched to the ground by a young man whom it seems has been arrested.