How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

Voting leave displayed a level of complete arrogance and buffoonery within the UK that voting Trump did in 'merica. I was amazed by the latter and convinced I would never see the like again.......
 
I posted this recently in the Politics forum. Read the headlines and weep. Update on the effects of Brexit, May 2022.

Brexit analysis - Office for Budget Responsibility

Since the announcement of the EU referendum we have been producing analysis and writing about the potential effects of Brexit on the economy and public finances. We have compiled our assumptions, judgements and analysis on this page.
obr.uk obr.uk
 
Magicpole said:
Utter fucking disaster, but if you feel it’s still great, fill your boots......then tell me the name of the horse that kicked your dome in and I will GodFather the ****.
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As a person who thought at the time Brexit was the correct decision of the people, albeit many who did vote for Brexit in my opinion voted for the wrong reasons I still do not believe Brexit is wrong, its the people who have delivered it are wrong. They allowed themselves to be dictated too by the little Englander's, gammon's, racists and ultra neo liberals.

It could and should have been so very different.

The nature of the Brexit referendum though left us with a binary choice when there should have been a third choice, greater integration into the EU

Do not get me wrong here, I am on record as being Pro EU, my issue was that the EU did not go far enough and should have planned to develop into a federalised United States of Europe, a Federalised state that had EU armed forces, an EU wide social security system and healthcare system. An elected President and executive, with a Parliament will real power. As a Federal state it could have given autonomy to regions such as Catalonia and Scotland, it could have given more powers to local people.

It would also have given us the chance of a Socialist EU, already many EU countries are electing left wing Governments as the fight back against neo liberalism gathers pace. The EU as it stood was a neo liberal construct and that is why I was content with Brexit.

If only Labour had not allowed Starmer to push that ridiculous policy at the last election and Corbyn had been allowed to be true to his beliefs things could have been very different. Instead we got this clueless bunch offering oven ready deals and other such nonsense,
 
Rascal said:
As a person who thought at the time Brexit was the correct decision of the people, albeit many who did vote for Brexit in my opinion voted for the wrong reasons I still do not believe Brexit is wrong, its the people who have delivered it are wrong. They allowed themselves to be dictated too by the little Englander's, gammon's, racists and ultra neo liberals.

It could and should have been so very different.

The nature of the Brexit referendum though left us with a binary choice when there should have been a third choice, greater integration into the EU

Do not get me wrong here, I am on record as being Pro EU, my issue was that the EU did not go far enough and should have planned to develop into a federalised United States of Europe, a Federalised state that had EU armed forces, an EU wide social security system and healthcare system. An elected President and executive, with a Parliament will real power. As a Federal state it could have given autonomy to regions such as Catalonia and Scotland, it could have given more powers to local people.

It would also have given us the chance of a Socialist EU, already many EU countries are electing left wing Governments as the fight back against neo liberalism gathers pace. The EU as it stood was a neo liberal construct and that is why I was content with Brexit.

If only Labour had not allowed Starmer to push that ridiculous policy at the last election and Corbyn had been allowed to be true to his beliefs things could have been very different. Instead we got this clueless bunch offering oven ready deals and other such nonsense,
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You don’t think it’s wrong? It’s the greatest act of self harm carried out by any nation in the last 70 years. It’s impact will be felt for decades unless some party tries to unwind some of the damage.

as it stands, we do not have a labour force capable of keeping the country ( agriculture, building, tourism, public services, health services) running.
 
Voted in by people looking at going back to a glorious past that never existed for the vast majority of people.
For the last 20 years the Conservatives have directed their policies at avoiding spliting the party rather than what is good for the country. Labour thinks (as in the 80s) that it can hang around and get voted in by default.

The twenty first century has produced a series of the worst PMs ever.
 
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Rascal said:
As a person who thought at the time Brexit was the correct decision of the people, albeit many who did vote for Brexit in my opinion voted for the wrong reasons I still do not believe Brexit is wrong, its the people who have delivered it are wrong. They allowed themselves to be dictated too by the little Englander's, gammon's, racists and ultra neo liberals.

It could and should have been so very different.

The nature of the Brexit referendum though left us with a binary choice when there should have been a third choice, greater integration into the EU

Do not get me wrong here, I am on record as being Pro EU, my issue was that the EU did not go far enough and should have planned to develop into a federalised United States of Europe, a Federalised state that had EU armed forces, an EU wide social security system and healthcare system. An elected President and executive, with a Parliament will real power. As a Federal state it could have given autonomy to regions such as Catalonia and Scotland, it could have given more powers to local people.

It would also have given us the chance of a Socialist EU, already many EU countries are electing left wing Governments as the fight back against neo liberalism gathers pace. The EU as it stood was a neo liberal construct and that is why I was content with Brexit.

If only Labour had not allowed Starmer to push that ridiculous policy at the last election and Corbyn had been allowed to be true to his beliefs things could have been very different. Instead we got this clueless bunch offering oven ready deals and other such nonsense,
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Fantasy politics, none of that was ever going to happen in the real world. Whereas Brexit being a shit decision , being implemented by a tory government was entirely predictable.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
You don’t think it’s wrong? It’s the greatest act of self harm carried out by any nation in the last 70 years. It’s impact will be felt for decades unless some party tries to unwind some of the damage.

as it stands, we do not have a labour force capable of keeping the country ( agriculture, building, tourism, public services, health services) running.
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Its been implemented by people who are clueless, and/or people who are rampant free market idealogues who took advantage of peoples ignorance to push their agenda, check out the Baker Street Herald for some of the underhand dealings, you will be gobsmacked.. On that level it is wrong on every level, because of the people behind it.

Yet I still think given the options I described in my previous post it was the correct decision, the result however is we have jumped out of one neo liberal frying pan into an ultra neo liberal frying pan.

If anything it was a failure of the left to have a cohesive vision of a post Brexit UK. That saddens me.
 
blueparrot said:
Fantasy politics, none of that was ever going to happen in the real world. Whereas Brexit being a shit decision , being implemented by a tory government was entirely predictable.
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Fantasy maybe, but it could have been reality with some vision. Thats why the EU as it stands is untenable, it lacks vision, it only wants to expand its sphere of influence and expand the reach of neo liberalism

I agree totally that the Tories have fucked Brexit up.
 
Rascal said:
Its been implemented by people who are clueless, and/or people who are rampant free market idealogues who took advantage of peoples ignorance to push their agenda, check out the Baker Street Herald for some of the underhand dealings, you will be gobsmacked.. On that level it is wrong on every level, because of the people behind it.

Yet I still think given the options I described in my previous post it was the correct decision, the result however is we have jumped out of one neo liberal frying pan into an ultra neo liberal frying pan.

If anything it was a failure of the left to have a cohesive vision of a post Brexit UK. That saddens me.
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My god. You know who was pushing for it and yet you still don’t get it. You support it despite your knowledge of who was behind it.
Put ideology aside. It should have been stopped by any means. It is an act of National self harm.
 
If the vast majority now believe it’s the wrong decision - why not look to rejoin ? All because we can’t be arsed with the hoo rah of it all ? It’s better than continuing down this path
 
Saddleworth2 said:
My god. You know who was pushing for it and yet you still don’t get it. You support it despite your knowledge of who was behind it.
Put ideology aside. It should have been stopped by any means. It is an act of National self harm.
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Lexit supporters lied to themselves from the start.

Brexit was never going to be a socialist success.

Their support probably tipped the balance and here we are.
 
Rejoining the EU any time soon is unrealistic, but the best we can hope for is probably a Labour/Liberal progressive alliance to form a coalition government after the next election, and seek to rejoin the Single Market asap. After that hopefully we can gradually undo more of the self-inflicted damage caused by Brexit. Fingers crossed, although you can never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the British electorate.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
My god. You know who was pushing for it and yet you still don’t get it. You support it despite your knowledge of who was behind it.
Put ideology aside. It should have been stopped by any means. It is an act of National self harm.
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The left has always had a strong anti EU faction, the likes of Benn and Shore, Foot and even stood on a pro leave manifesto pledge in 1982. They saw the way the EU was heading and the EU is no friend of Socialism. Its a pro capitalist entity and as an anti capitalist I could not support it despite being in bed with the strangest of bedfellows. I despise Farage and his ilk with a passion/

The reason though it has been a disaster is because of the people implementing it, not because Brexit was inherently a bad choice,
 
Rascal said:
The left has always had a strong anti EU faction, the likes of Benn and Shore, Foot and even stood on a pro leave manifesto pledge in 1982. They saw the way the EU was heading and the EU is no friend of Socialism. Its a pro capitalist entity and as an anti capitalist I could not support it despite being in bed with the strangest of bedfellows. I despise Farage and his ilk with a passion/

The reason though it has been a disaster is because of the people implementing it, not because Brexit was inherently a bad choice,
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Given it was clear from the Vote Leave campaign who would be actually be implementing it, then surely Brexit was indeed an inherently bad choice?
 
Ric said:
Rejoining the EU any time soon is unrealistic, but the best we can hope for is probably a Labour/Liberal progressive alliance to form a coalition government after the next election, and seek to rejoin the Single Market asap. After that hopefully we can gradually undo more of the self-inflicted damage caused by Brexit. Fingers crossed, although you can never underestimate the sheer stupidity of the British electorate.
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Ric, why do you consider the Liberals progressive, they are only progressive on social issues, economically their Orange Bookists are to the right of the Tories.

What you suggest with centrist Keith is charge though is not unrealistic, yet rules out Socialism for another generation.
 
Rascal said:
Ric, why do you consider the Liberals progressive, they are only progressive on social issues, economically their Orange Bookists are to the right of the Tories.

What you suggest with centrist Keith is charge though is not unrealistic, yet rules out Socialism for another generation.
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I think after this particular government, then any slightly normal/competent politicians will be seen as progressive. It’s a low bar.
 
Ric said:
Given it was clear from the Vote Leave campaign who would be actually be implementing it, then surely Brexit was indeed an inherently bad choice?
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I have stated previously that the binary nature of the vote left out my preferred option and whilst Brexit now looks a bad choice, I actually have something in common with that Tory clown Rees Mogg, in that we may not see the benefits for years.... The passing of time may however pave the way for a Socialist government able to do as it pleases without the constraints of the EU. I may not see it, but our young ones might,
 
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