How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

Saddleworth2 said:


look what I found!
All these benefits.
Click to expand...


Its slick and you can see how people who were fed up would be seduced by it. However a bit of critical thinking and an analysis of each claim would have thrown up so many unanswered questions - for example - fishing. What happens to our bi-valve molluscs? Jobs - we can't all get better jobs. Someone has to sweep the floors in the bus station - thats currently done by a lad from Portugal - does that mean leaving the EU me or my son with a degree will be expected to be a cleaner?

The second part of the lies and persuasion was the bit that won it for them...... just lay out the promises as in that video and don't answer any questions - if anyone asks they "don't believe enough" and are spreading "Project Fear". That last bit allowed the easily persuaded and gullible not to check anything themselves as Project Fear became their get out of jail free card.

And now Project Fear is here.......
 
bluethrunthru said:
Its slick and you can see how people who were fed up would be seduced by it. However a bit of critical thinking and an analysis of each claim would have thrown up so many unanswered questions - for example - fishing. What happens to our bi-valve molluscs? Jobs - we can't all get better jobs. Someone has to sweep the floors in the bus station - thats currently done by a lad from Portugal - does that mean leaving the EU me or my son with a degree will be expected to be a cleaner?

The second part of the lies and persuasion was the bit that won it for them...... just lay out the promises as in that video and don't answer any questions - if anyone asks they "don't believe enough" and are spreading "Project Fear". That last bit allowed the easily persuaded and gullible not to check anything themselves as Project Fear became their get out of jail free card.

And now Project Fear is here.......
Click to expand...
And don’t forget the provocation of immigration which always seemed to strapped onto any statement:

NHS - less people to look after, stealing our money.

Jobs - more jobs and better pay, as they’ve been stealing our jobs and forcing wages down.

Etc, etc.
 
Gabriel said:
It’s not simply the fact that they wilfully misled the people but the fact that they so horribly misread the international situation, and continue to do so. The narrative persists that everything will be okay once the international situation returns to the balance of 2015. It won’t and it never will: Russia is set for the long game in Ukraine, China is not posturing and can turn the screw, and India will have its pound of flesh.

If anything, the international situation is going to develop in ways that make Brexit successes even more unlikely.
Click to expand...
This is why leaving was so utterly reckless. If it wasn’t Covid, or Ukraine it would have been something else. To fail to appreciate this, is to fail to understand how the world works. We have unnecessarily exposed ourselves to the vagaries of international and human events. Being part of something bigger afforded us a degree of protection against the unforeseen.

The arrogance required to walk away from that layer of protection is utterly staggering. A completely reckless act that will be the undoing of this nation.
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
This is why leaving was so utterly reckless. If it wasn’t Covid, or Ukraine it would have been something else. To fail to appreciate this, is to fail to understand how the world works. We have unnecessarily exposed ourselves to the vagaries of international and human events. Being part of something bigger afforded us a degree of protection against the unforeseen.

The arrogance required to walk away from that layer of protection is utterly staggering. A completely reckless act that will be the undoing of this nation.
Click to expand...
I just hope same day, somehow, we manage to get back into the E.U.
 
Alan Harper's Tash said:
Whilst not training more to fill the gap caused by doctors returning home.
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They certainly won’t be able to train them
fast enough.

What that report fails to do is identify more specifically where these new medical staff are coming from. I would wager that there has been a substantial increase from India, which could make the UK vulnerable should New Delhi insist on their recall or use them as bargaining leverage. Similarly, the world of higher education, post Brexit, has seen a steep increase in the number of Chinese and Indian postgraduate students to the UK, which means the universities are becoming increasingly dependent on them for income. That also has implications for sensitive knowledge sharing and expertise.

All of these people naturally need somewhere to stay, have medical needs to attend, and use the public services that are creaking after decades of underinvestment, so it shouldn’t be a problem. Just a relief that the UK has an unblemished record of welcoming and accommodating such people…
 
Gabriel said:
They certainly won’t be able to train them
fast enough.

What that report fails to do is identify more specifically where these new medical staff are coming from. I would wager that there has been a substantial increase from India, which could make the UK vulnerable should New Delhi insist on their recall or use them as bargaining leverage. Similarly, the world of higher education, post Brexit, has seen a steep increase in the number of Chinese and Indian postgraduate students to the UK, which means the universities are becoming increasingly dependent on them for income. That also has implications for sensitive knowledge sharing and expertise.

All of these people naturally need somewhere to stay, have medical needs to attend, and use the public services that are creaking after decades of underinvestment, so it shouldn’t be a problem. Just a relief that the UK has an unblemished record of welcoming and accommodating such people…
Click to expand...
Absolutely. There was always going to be a 10 year black hole of not having enough doctors along side doctors going home.

Does anyone know if we are now training an extra 33% to cover the void?

As we have made it harder for people from the EU to work here, the excess was always going to come from non-EU countries.
 
Saddleworth2 said:


look what I found!
All these benefits.
Click to expand...


Looked at objectively this has all the credibility of a 'wellness' infomercial touting the benefits of monkey semen infused mung beans as a cure for male pattern baldness, building a six pack or enhancing your genitalia.

But people believe what they want to believe, especially if they are desperate and something appears to offer hope or a simple fix to their problems. Cynical scumbags have always sold cures for all ailments, it was once they moved from the fairground to dominate the mainstream political arena that we ended up in trouble.
 
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