How do we resolve the Brexit mess?

gordondaviesmoustache said:
This is why leaving was so utterly reckless. If it wasn’t Covid, or Ukraine it would have been something else. To fail to appreciate this, is to fail to understand how the world works. We have unnecessarily exposed ourselves to the vagaries of international and human events. Being part of something bigger afforded us a degree of protection against the unforeseen.

The arrogance required to walk away from that layer of protection is utterly staggering. A completely reckless act that will be the undoing of this nation.
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Absolutely. It is a tad ironic that the Brexit admirals proclaimed that an unmoored UK would be liberated and free to benefit from sailing nimbly through international waters, yet they no sooner got out of La Manche to find ruddy great tankers bearing down on them and had to slip back into harbour. Even without Pugwash at the helm, the same perils lie ahead, but pointing out the bleeding obvious is now somehow doing down the country, which might soon become a treasonous act.
 
threespires said:
Looked at objectively this has all the credibility of a 'wellness' infomercial touting the benefits of monkey semen infused mung beans as a cure for male pattern baldness, building a six pack or enhancing your genitalia.

But people believe what they want to believe, especially if they are desperate and something appears to offer hope or a simple fix to their problems. Cynical scumbags have always sold cures for all ailments, it was once they moved from the fairground to dominate the mainstream political arena that we ended up in trouble.
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Yeah but what should baffle anyone with two brain cells or more should be why now we are no longer in the EU and all the problems are being reported on why not take your ire out on those deceitful clowns who brainwashed them there? Instead in the absence of the EU they blame France for people crossing in dinghies also its the people in dinghies fault. They blame their fellow citizens for not being "patriotic" enough and even Spain for insisting that we must follow the 3rd country rules we helped set up when EU members and that we enforce on people coming here - because we are a 3rd country.

Single brain celled beings are more plentiful than I had ever thought.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Yeah but what should baffle anyone with two brain cells or more should be why now we are no longer in the EU and all the problems are being reported on why not take your ire out on those deceitful clowns who brainwashed them there? Instead in the absence of the EU they blame France for people crossing in dinghies also its the people in dinghies fault. They blame their fellow citizens for not being "patriotic" enough and even Spain for insisting that we must follow the 3rd country rules we helped set up when EU members and that we enforce on people coming here - because we are a 3rd country.

Single brain celled beings are more plentiful than I had ever thought.
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A fair number of people will double down because no one likes to feel they've been taken for a fool and will just bury their heads in the sand. Others are doing it because they're now comfortable that their long held xenophobic outlook is socially acceptable and if the rest of its a shitshow so what. Others still have fully drunk the mail/express koolaid and appear completely brainwashed. As for anyone genuinely playing the patriotism card given what has gone before, it is indeed operating at amoeba levels of cognition.

But I have to say that the most common reaction I see from leavers I know is either buyers remorse or to just change the subject and pretend it never happened.
 
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threespires said:
Looked at objectively this has all the credibility of a 'wellness' infomercial touting the benefits of monkey semen infused mung beans as a cure for male pattern baldness, building a six pack or enhancing your genitalia.

But people believe what they want to believe, especially if they are desperate and something appears to offer hope or a simple fix to their problems. Cynical scumbags have always sold cures for all ailments, it was once they moved from the fairground to dominate the mainstream political arena that we ended up in trouble.
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Especially as 80% of the media avoid even talking about the root problem. As a country we are perfectly happy for those that have defrauded us to trot happily into wealthy retirement with Absolutely no fucks given.
 
threespires said:
A fair number of people will double down because no one likes to feel they've been taken for a fool and will just bury their heads in the sand. Others are doing it because they're now comfortable that their long held xenophobic outlook is socially acceptable and if the rest of its a shitshow so what. Others still have fully drunk the mail/express koolaid and appear completely brainwashed. As for anyone genuinely playing the patriotism card given what has gone before, is indeed operating at amoeba levels of cognition.

But I have to say that the most common reaction I see from leavers I know is to either buyers remorse or just change the subject and pretend it never happened.
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What are the chances of buyers' remorse reaching critical mass? From the polls, around 20% of leave voters seem to have realised it was the wrong decision. It only took one boy in the King's New Clothes to destroy the illusion, but I suspect the Brexit illusion has already been destroyed, and that even Mail / Express readers know the whole Brexit opportunity crap is crap but consume the nonsense like a sort of comfort eating.

I'll stop before I mix metaphors any more.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Especially as 80% of the media avoid even talking about the root problem. As a country we are perfectly happy for those that have defrauded us to trot happily into wealthy retirement with Absolutely no fucks given.
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A politician's life.
 
Gabriel said:
It’s not simply the fact that they wilfully misled the people but the fact that they so horribly misread the international situation, and continue to do so. The narrative persists that everything will be okay once the international situation returns to the balance of 2015. It won’t and it never will: Russia is set for the long game in Ukraine, China is not posturing and can turn the screw, and India will have its pound of flesh.

If anything, the international situation is going to develop in ways that make Brexit successes even more unlikely.
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You have to calculate how much Brexit has led Russia and China to perceive an opportunity.
 
Vic said:
You have to calculate how much Brexit has led Russia and China to perceive an opportunity.
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I think the American withdrawal from Afghanistan was more the catalyst for their exerting themselves, though
Brexit and American isolationism under Trump certainly encouraged them, which is why their peoples should want the fullest investigation into what happened to allow both.
 
threespires said:
A fair number of people will double down because no one likes to feel they've been taken for a fool and will just bury their heads in the sand. Others are doing it because they're now comfortable that their long held xenophobic outlook is socially acceptable and if the rest of its a shitshow so what. Others still have fully drunk the mail/express koolaid and appear completely brainwashed. As for anyone genuinely playing the patriotism card given what has gone before, is indeed operating at amoeba levels of cognition.

But I have to say that the most common reaction I see from leavers I know is to either buyers remorse or just change the subject and pretend it never happened.
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And it’s really difficult to unwind all that brainwashing.

It will have psycho-fucked a lot of people for sure. Look at those unraveling the damage cults have done to they’re heads.

Will of the broken people.
 
Ha ha ha ha - Frosty the Showman saying the polar opposite to his previous statements on Brexit - I wouldn't waste time out of what could be left of my life to read a 29 page sheet of lies

 
Brexit is my favourite reason for every member of the news media to be strung up. (Soz if it offends, my wife says its a bit strong).

~On a more serious note I have a very strong feeling that oue media blackout on the shitshow of Brexit is down to some govn edict to the media about maintaining public moral, belief, togetherness.. like a national; emergency. Its just very strange that across the news outlets there is hardly any bluster.

I read yank or australian news and they're full of how we shot ourselves in the foot. All very strange.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Yeah but what should baffle anyone with two brain cells or more should be why now we are no longer in the EU and all the problems are being reported on why not take your ire out on those deceitful clowns who brainwashed them there? Instead in the absence of the EU they blame France for people crossing in dinghies also its the people in dinghies fault. They blame their fellow citizens for not being "patriotic" enough and even Spain for insisting that we must follow the 3rd country rules we helped set up when EU members and that we enforce on people coming here - because we are a 3rd country.

Single brain celled beings are more plentiful than I had ever thought.
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But we aren't any old 3rd country, we're the UK and the EU needs us more than we need them so we'll get a good deal.
In fact, the deal will be so good we'll accept it without giving the population a chance to vote on it.
We knew what remain meant. But no fucker on this planet had a bloody clue what leave meant. When Teresa may said "Brexit means Brexit" she meant she didn't have a fucking clue what was in store.
 
bluethrunthru said:
Ha ha ha ha - Frosty the Showman saying the polar opposite to his previous statements on Brexit - I wouldn't waste time out of what could be left of my life to read a 29 page sheet of lies

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Another charlatan with sinister overtones.

You don't need to read 29 pages.

"It no longer seems strange for ministers to lecture us about healthy eating and exercise, just as Winston Smith was hectored through his telescreen every morning."

"Any government that actually wishes to begin the task of solving Britain’s problems ... must change the climate of opinion... The public must come to feel that we have taken a wrong path and to react against it." But not Brexit, though he was a fan of the Single Market when he was paid to champion Scotch Whisky. He means more capitalism, though he rails against the house price inflation down to the large housing development companies.

Bizarrely, he wants a smaller state, but rather than admit the last 12 years have been an utter failure, and divisive, his cure "will be turbulent and disruptive. But it is necessary. Everyone will need to play their part. There is genuinely no alternative if we wish to heal the divisions" (so turbulence and disruption to heal divisions).

And a touch of madness: "The current evidence does not support the assertion that we are in a climate 'emergency'" "Instead of focusing on technological solutions that enable us to master our environment ... we have focused on managing demand so we can use medieval technology like wind power."

And in the end, he thinks a Tory government can do it. Do what? "Yet, here we are, with tax and spending comprising a higher share of GDP now, under a Conservative government, than under a Labour administration a quarter of a century ago". Explicitly, he wants to "reduce the size of the state at least to the size of the Tony Blair years"!
 
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I thought the country would go back to where we were prior to the EU. It’s not possible the NHS, even teaching is in the process of being privatised everything has gone to far down the privatisation route. It really is a mess.
Not enough doctors or nurses being trained, or para medics and social care workers we will be paying for the mistakes for generations
 
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