How do you engage in politics, healthily?

[BlueMoonAcrossThePond]

I suppose I'm a case study on this topic - namely, "How do you engage in politics, healthily?"

You can check my profile and then examine my political exchanges with Bigga and Dax777.

Healthy discourse for me rapidly ends when the other party simply refuses to acknowledge fact.

In Bigga's case, anything which attempts to convince him that an ultra progressive candidate has zero chance of winning election currently in the USA sails right past him. That a moderate, centrist Democrat in Joe Bidden narrowly won (not by popular vote but by electoral vote) escapes him. It's - I guess an emotional response on his part. Worse still, he equates any elected official, however moderate, as exactly the same as a far right candidate and he couldn't care whether the moderate won or the far right won election. In frustration I had to put Bigga on ignore although I sense we agreed largely on policy.

In Dax's case - I've just begun to engage with him in politics. But he's posted several times indicating that he's simply going to be pro-Republican on virtually all issues regardless of fact; for example, he's posted that it's his belief that the FBI makes things up - e.g., with regard to white supremist groups - simply to promote Democratic Party ideas... in other words, that some sort of deep state - anti-Republican, pro-Democrat, conspiracy-ridden US government infrastructure exists. A crazy supposition illustrative of a complete lack of critical thinking accompanied by a pro-Republican zeal that swamps facts. It's likely that Dax is going to be on ignore too.

The basis for healthy political debate - is the willingness to apply critical thinking; which inevitably leads to trust in scientists and a general (yes media is biased towards Democrats but not to the extent that they make stuff up) trust of media to at least report facts. Dax seems thus far unable to accept plain facts and moreover seems all-to-ready to believe whatever narrative Fox News, AON, or other far right networks care to make up.

If my opponent in a political debate cannot accept as fact those things which are plainly factual - healthy debate is impossible.

 

[Del_Bosque]

The answer is don’t get emotionally involved and try to understand how it all works.

IE bills being passed, readings etc.

The amount of people who freak out when a private members bill gets voted down.

Oh and understand that a lot of politicans now exist solely to raise their profile for media jobs after parliament.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Let me give you an example of what politics is, these days:

In the last 4 weeks, 1 at the start of the month and 1, yesterday, I happened to speak to people on politics face to face. The first happened to catch my comments on the state of the country and she asked me about my views on BloJo. She responded that she 'liked him' because he was funny,, relatable and dropped in long words, so he's very well educated and knows what he's talking about.

I was, truly, astonished! Having asked what he's actually done, she cited Brexit and COVID! Weirdly, she agreed that the country was in a mess, but he needed time to put it right. She finished off by saying she couldn't have voted Corbyn because he was "slimy" and "pompous"! I said, so you'd rather vote a guy who's laughing and dragging the country down, for comedic value, rather than a guy who wanted the right things, but didn't quite 'fit the mould'.

Yes, she said. I walked away at that point.

Second, was yesterday about Obama. After watching a comedy special were the comedian wished Obama was still running the country, I scoffed and my friend asked why I did that as she thought Obama did an amazing job. I asked what he did that was of any benefit and she couldn't name anything, but that he was 'cool' as a pres. I dropped knowledge on her about his Pres and she was still in his corner.

Her BJ for me at the end of the night, almost wasn't worth it, I tell ya...

*edit, my point being, not enough of the average voter seems to know enough about the politician outside what the media sells them.

This is where I think the democracy we have is overrated and that the vote shouldn’t just be for everyone.

I think you should have to pass an exam in Politics to be able to attain a vote. You then take your certification number with you to the ballot box in order to vote when it’s voting time.

I think giving any and every simpleton in society a vote makes a mockery of our democracy.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

The big problem nowadays is it’s all at the superficial level, it’s rare that a debate or a discussion really gets to a level of people wanting to truly understand why someone else has a different opinion or outlook. I’ve always found that that’s where the most interesting conversations actually are though and where the most value is. Brexit is a prime example where I don’t think either side actually listened properly.

In personal relationships, I tend to not discuss politics at all. I was brought up on no political discussion in the house and looking back now, I see a lot of merit in that.

Quite right.

Everything is “them-and-us”. One side v the other side. No debate, just shouting down, drowning out, no understanding… “they’re wrong; we’re right” in everything that’s ever talked about. Everything is either absolutely fucking fantastic or it’s an absolute fucking disaster.

No middle ground. No moderates. Just rabid idiots on the extremes of both sides of the debate shouting louder than everyone else all the time.

They can’t seem to understand why the biggest political party in Britain are the Abstainers. They probably think those who don’t vote are too stupid to, when in reality a lot of the time, it’s the stupid people who vote (I mean, look who they’re voting for, for a start!) and a lot of us who are clued up just don’t bother.

I’ve not voted in GEs more than I have voted in them. And I’m interested in politics!

 

[roypaulknewmyfather]

Quite right.

Everything is “them-and-us”. One side v the other side. No debate, just shouting down, drowning out, no understanding… “they’re wrong; we’re right” in everything that’s ever talked about. Everything is either absolutely fucking fantastic or it’s an absolute fucking disaster.

No middle ground. No moderates. Just rabid idiots on the extremes of both sides of the debate shouting louder than everyone else all the time.

They can’t seem to understand why the biggest political party in Britain are the Abstainers. They probably think those who don’t vote are too stupid to, when in reality a lot of the time, it’s the stupid people who vote (I mean, look who they’re voting for, for a start!) and a lot of us who are clued up just don’t bother.

I’ve not voted in GEs more than I have voted in them. And I’m interested in politics!

A few years ago I suggested to my local MP who was complaining about low turnout in elections, that if an extra box was added to the ballot paper it might encourage more people to turn out. Next to that box I said “non of the above. They don’t represent my views” should be written. I was told it wasn’t a good idea as it was too negative. I countered that at least it would count. When I hand write that across the paper it counts only as spoilt which doesn’t show up as anything other than that. Not dissatisfaction with whats on offer.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Why do people go into politics as a career choice? To have an influence on important decisions about what nations do and what they become. But is the desire for influence born out of a genuine desire to be a voice of constituencies, especially those who need a voice, or who is most balanced among the views of conflicting, disparate constituents or is it a desire for power, control, or ego-enhancement?

I’ve spent effectively my entire life comparing candidates based on my judgment of which represents choice best represents the former as opposed to the latter. Typically when it comes to platforms, those candidates fall left or center-left, less frequently right or center-right, very rarely far left, and never far right.

If you are platform first and person second, I’ll will likely find it difficult to engage with you.