HR at work putting clauses in my contract

In what way, flook? You can get contracts checked over and even get insurance to cover yourself, plus your agency and their client if you wanted, in case of an HMRC investigation. Rates are increasing too. Saw one today for £600 a day (inside IR35) for 6 months, fully remote.

I'm struggling to see the downside.

May be different in IT, but in construction pretty much all big companies are declaring/have declared a blanket "caught", with little sign of rates going up to compensate. Thankfully I saw this coming about 5 years ago and took steps to take myself out of IR35 completely, I have 2 long term clients and the odd other job, work 100% from home and provide my own hardware and software. Moving from a staff post to freelance these days is a big risk, unless you can land a small/medium business client who keeps you long enough to educate yourself and build up a network of agents etc.

Insurance can be taken (I've been a member of IPSE (or PCG as was) since its inception, and use their insurance, but that only covers the legal costs of any investigation, not the penalties and back tax which may follow. The latter is a significant issue, particularly for anyone on a long term contract with the same client. For example, your client is a large business who declares a blanket caught, (the legalities of this are a different discussion), so you're now inside IR35. You've been in the same role for 5 years, so the door is now open for HMRC to look at the previous time and determine you were also inside IR35 for the preceding years, on the basis that nothing has changed in your contractual or working relationship. So you are now open to significant back tax payments and potential penalties.

I may be being over cautious, and as I say I believe I am now legitimately outside IR35 so it doesn't really affect me, but if I was considering moving from a staff role at this time I would be very nervous
 
May be different in IT, but in construction pretty much all big companies are declaring/have declared a blanket "caught", with little sign of rates going up to compensate. Thankfully I saw this coming about 5 years ago and took steps to take myself out of IR35 completely, I have 2 long term clients and the odd other job, work 100% from home and provide my own hardware and software. Moving from a staff post to freelance these days is a big risk, unless you can land a small/medium business client who keeps you long enough to educate yourself and build up a network of agents etc.

Insurance can be taken (I've been a member of IPSE (or PCG as was) since its inception, and use their insurance, but that only covers the legal costs of any investigation, not the penalties and back tax which may follow. The latter is a significant issue, particularly for anyone on a long term contract with the same client. For example, your client is a large business who declares a blanket caught, (the legalities of this are a different discussion), so you're now inside IR35. You've been in the same role for 5 years, so the door is now open for HMRC to look at the previous time and determine you were also inside IR35 for the preceding years, on the basis that nothing has changed in your contractual or working relationship. So you are now open to significant back tax payments and potential penalties.

I may be being over cautious, and as I say I believe I am now legitimately outside IR35 so it doesn't really affect me, but if I was considering moving from a staff role at this time I would be very nervous
Of course you're right, I'm taking an IT view and don't really know about other industries. In IT there's definitely insurance out there that covers the penalties that HMRC could hand down, and it covers contracts that may have started and finished before you had insurance cover. It just needs a bit of thought about the indemnity cover needed. The premiums are very low, so I'm taking it that it is very rare that HMRC will investigate and HMRC have said they won't investigate - if you trust them - when someone now deemed inside was previously working outside unless they suspect fraud or if the contractor hasn't done the necessary diligence to ensure their status on earlier contracts. HMRC are put off if you have a history of contracts being reviewed by employment legal specialists because whenever they challenge these people in court they tend to lose.

Within 6 years though, the period that HMRC can investigate, it will be gone, because the liability from April 2021 falls solely on the fee-payer, so that will be either an intermediary agency or the end client, not the contractor. I think businesses will start to realise eventually that they cannot continue with blanket inside IR35 decisions because it will limit the pool of talent or mean they have to pay very high rates, but it is a difficult area for newbies and businesses to understand.
 
Well this has got quite interesting now.

I've had a couple of meetings with HR and the directors and they say after last March when everyone was told to stay at home, the company was 1 day away from making lots of people redundant. Because of this, they say they need this to cover it happening again and there's no furlough. Basically if anything bad happens we get temporarily laid off of shirt timed

They have accepted that my notice period should stay at 1 month and not 2.

They won't accept my position that short timing could be used at other times. They won't accept that the company could be sold on as they say it's not for sale.

Basically I've been told it's "business critical" I sign this clause and if I don't I will be dismissed. I am a little surprised by this and they are asking me to come up with alternatives. No other alternatives have been offered by the company.

has anyone else been in this position before? I'm really tempted to just refuse it and go, if only they make me redundant but I don't think that's on the table.

Any advice would be appreciated!
 
Well this has got quite interesting now.

I've had a couple of meetings with HR and the directors and they say after last March when everyone was told to stay at home, the company was 1 day away from making lots of people redundant. Because of this, they say they need this to cover it happening again and there's no furlough. Basically if anything bad happens we get temporarily laid off of shirt timed

They have accepted that my notice period should stay at 1 month and not 2.

They won't accept my position that short timing could be used at other times. They won't accept that the company could be sold on as they say it's not for sale.

Basically I've been told it's "business critical" I sign this clause and if I don't I will be dismissed. I am a little surprised by this and they are asking me to come up with alternatives. No other alternatives have been offered by the company.

has anyone else been in this position before? I'm really tempted to just refuse it and go, if only they make me redundant but I don't think that's on the table.

Any advice would be appreciated!
The smart thing to do is sign it, keep taking your salary (no gap on your CV), keep your mouth shut and (if you can't live with it) look for another job.
 
Well this has got quite interesting now.

I've had a couple of meetings with HR and the directors and they say after last March when everyone was told to stay at home, the company was 1 day away from making lots of people redundant. Because of this, they say they need this to cover it happening again and there's no furlough. Basically if anything bad happens we get temporarily laid off of shirt timed

They have accepted that my notice period should stay at 1 month and not 2.

They won't accept my position that short timing could be used at other times. They won't accept that the company could be sold on as they say it's not for sale.

Basically I've been told it's "business critical" I sign this clause and if I don't I will be dismissed. I am a little surprised by this and they are asking me to come up with alternatives. No other alternatives have been offered by the company.

has anyone else been in this position before? I'm really tempted to just refuse it and go, if only they make me redundant but I don't think that's on the table.

Any advice would be appreciated!
How about you propose that you will accept being short timed to 60% for a maximum of 2 months or something similar then at least if it comes to it, it would only be for a short time - and you could use the time off to look for another job.
 
Cheers Gorton, that's what I've decided to do. Some battles you can't win!
No knowledge of HR but even if you win a wrongful dismissal case against them with associated costs and cash my experience is that they simply go into both receivership and liquidation ie if their predicament is as dire as they say.
They start up somewhere else and you never see any money.
 

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