I am voting Labour next ....talk me out of it.

[The Future’s Blue!]

In the last but one election there was a swing of 7% to labour, but a 2% swing back to cons last time but that was the boris/get brexit done effect i guess , so it could swung back

It only takes one to make a change and if others believe in that one person, they will follow.

Personally, I vote with what I think is best for the country, regardless of colour, and, for that, the Conservative Party isn’t even on the radar. In fact, to me, the Conservative Party are dead, no longer a party that I can recognise.

 

[meltonblue]

It only takes one to make a change and if others believe in that one person, they will follow.

Personally, I vote with what I think is best for the country, regardless of colour, and, for that, the Conservative Party isn’t even on the radar. In fact, to me, the Conservative Party are dead, no longer a party that I can recognise.

I know quite a lot of historic conservative voters that think the same too, I know there’s a long way to go to it yet but the next election really could be brutal for them.

The issue now is given they know it too, just how much damage they’ll do before it…

 

[Bluesince1979]

It only takes one to make a change and if others believe in that one person, they will follow.

Personally, I vote with what I think is best for the country, regardless of colour, and, for that, the Conservative Party isn’t even on the radar. In fact, to me, the Conservative Party are dead, no longer a party that I can recognise.

Im going to vote with my heart. The tory candidate will still get in, because it would have to be a monumental swing. But im going to vote thinking my vote will go towards the national total rather than just local. Itll make me feel better :)

 

[Gingers Dad]

OK,

Since 1971 I have always voted for the Conservative party, a Margaret Thatcher fan (Although she did have her faults), but I am now totally disillusioned with this shower of s

t who go from crisis to crisis,( I do have a certain amount of sympathy with them because they did have covid19 to deal with, which must have been a nightmare)...but now I have had enough.

Liz Truss and that idiotic chancellor was the last straw.

Now I know Starmer is rather bland and doesn't seem to come up with any policies. just criticise the Tories all the time and I used to hate Angela Rayner but I am coming round to thinking she is OK, talks a lot of sense, even though she lets her mouth get carried away a bit, but time for a new broom?

Thoughts?

No policies really?
Obviously you didn't listen to Rachel Reeves speach to the Fabian Society the other day.
After that lying, law breaking, narcissistic 2hat Johnson a bit of bland might be what we need.
Starmer might be the first PM for a while who hasn't got his hand in the till or doesn't tank the economy

 

[remember arthur mann]

Can't see a problem, unless your next statement is turning into a rag.

 

[ZenHalfTimeCrock]

This is only an intellectual exercise for me, but if I was seriously trying to talk someone out of voting Labour (which I'm not) I would argue that all we are going to end up with is neoliberalism-lite when it comes to economic policy.

Here is what neoliberalism is:

Neoliberalism – the ideology at the root of all our problems

Financial meltdown, environmental disaster and even the rise of Donald Trump – neoliberalism has played its part in them all. Why has the left failed to come up with an alternative?

www.theguardian.com

And here is the LSE economist Ha Joon Chang explaining why this may not be a good idea.

Economist Ha-Joon Chang: the Tory mini-budget was like trying to bring back terrible Tex-Mex

In a mouth-watering new book, the South Korean academic fuses his twin passions of food and economics to interrogate capitalism

www.theguardian.com

Just coming to the end of Chang's latest book. Needless to say, it's excellent.

 

[Indaparkside]

A Margaret thatcher fan that says it all

 

[Deleted member 77198]

So, apathy and no real say is your choice. Fair play. Not a dig at you.

It'd be good if everyone who previously didn't vote took a bit of time to back a team and make their votes count. It'd be a fairer representation if voter turnout was higher. UK politics is such a turnoff and compounded further so, year on year. The system won't change without voter input and efforts. Shame.

The largest political party in the country are The Abstainers.

There are people who know that their lives are pretty much the same no matter who’s in power or what’s going on in the country/world so it doesn’t matter to them.

Others think that politicians are substandard and won’t vote for any of them. Many feel that they’ve not seen a worthy PM come through for decades. Especially those who pop up with juvenile name calling aimed at the other side, it doesn’t half put people off that shit. There are people who think that politics is for desperate hate-filled children and they’ll just get on with their lives perfectly well living as an adult in the real world ignoring all that political shit.

Others have no trust in any political party. And who can fault them for having that view? We’ve seen charlatans, ineptness and moving away from traditional core values of parties at every level in every party for decades.

There’s a sizeable proportion of traditional white working class people who feel like there is no political party for them.

Personally, I’ve not voted in as many GEs as I have voted in. A few I was too busy in life to have kept up with what was going on with politics or read any manifestos and I refuse to vote without knowing what I’m voting for, and in others I didn’t agree with enough of any of the manifestos I did read and found that I agreed with bits of everyone’s manifestos and realised that party politics is archaic and doesn’t work because putting one political ideology in power doesn’t work for enough people and alienates too much of the population.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Or to turn the question on its head - do Ministers of this quality persuade you to vote Tory?

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

The largest political party in the country are The Abstainers.

There are people who know that their lives are pretty much the same no matter who’s in power or what’s going on in the country/world so it doesn’t matter to them.

Others think that politicians are substandard and won’t vote for any of them. Many feel that they’ve not seen a worthy PM come through for decades. Especially those who pop up with juvenile name calling aimed at the other side, it doesn’t half put people off that shit. There are people who think that politics is for desperate hate-filled children and they’ll just get on with their lives perfectly well living as an adult in the real world ignoring all that political shit.

Others have no trust in any political party. And who can fault them for having that view? We’ve seen charlatans, ineptness and moving away from traditional core values of parties at every level in every party for decades.

There’s a sizeable proportion of traditional white working class people who feel like there is no political party for them.

Personally, I’ve not voted in as many GEs as I have voted in. A few I was too busy in life to have kept up with what was going on with politics or read any manifestos and I refuse to vote without knowing what I’m voting for, and in others I didn’t agree with enough of any of the manifestos I did read and found that I agreed with bits of everyone’s manifestos and realised that party politics is archaic and doesn’t work because putting one political ideology in power doesn’t work for enough people and alienates too much of the population.

It’s generally in your interests to vote Labour, given your social class, occupation and income bracket.

The rest of it is just overthinking.

Most people don't read manifestos and most manifestos are just aspirational shopping lists not fleshed out policies.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

There really is no viable centrist option and it’s about time a party offered one. On one side you have the Rees Mogg types and on the other the Angela Rayners with their polarised politics.
I accept that no political party is perfect but everything in politics feels more and more binary these days.
As to who to vote for, well it comes down to a change is as good as a rest for me.

Cause and effect. There is no centrist option because centrism caters to a narrow section of society and thus has limited appeal. If we had a more economically equal society that may change.

It’s also a false premise that centrism is the logical and rational position. As far as I know the Libdems have never put anything forward for mitigating the effects of neo-liberalism.

Angela Rayner may be a gobby loudmouth, but she isn't on the hard left of the Labour party. She's very much in the soft left and has never been a member of the socialist campaign group.

 

[Vic]

If a party receives a higher vote count than last, that could be whats needed to get the momentum moving where it needs to be. It may take a while but at least it opens the options.

Make it a Tory marginal and the Tories will soon send the "levelling up" money - including all the EU grants that weren't decided by political whim and local authority contests.

 

[woody1968]

I know quite a lot of historic conservative voters that think the same too, I know there’s a long way to go to it yet but the next election really could be brutal for them.

The issue now is given they know it too, just how much damage they’ll do before it…

Think you missed out “premeditated” before”damage”

 

[Cassandra]

I have only once voted Conservative, for Virginia Bottomley who I thought was a decent person and a good constituency MP. I can't see me voting Tory ever again. My belief is that you should never give any party too much of a majority, otherwise you tend to get extremist policies. With the Scottish electoral system it is difficult for any party to get an overall majority in the Scottish Parliament, so generally whoever is the largest party the policies are relatively constrained. For a UK election I want a strong opposition - whichever party is in power I can safely vote for the SNP. In England I would hope for something of a LibDem revival (and that they wouldn't be stupid enough to again be bribed into a coalition to get a few junior ministerial places). Currently I would like to see a Labour government with an overall majority of less than 10 seats.

 

[inbetween]

Cause and effect. There is no centrist option because centrism caters to a narrow section of society and thus has limited appeal. If we had a more economically equal society that may change.

It’s also a false premise that centrism is the logical and rational position. As far as I know the Libdems have never put anything forward for mitigating the effects of neo-liberalism.

Angela Rayner may be a gobby loudmouth, but she isn't on the hard left of the Labour party. She's very much in the soft left and has never been a member of the socialist campaign group.

The vast majority of people are centrists but this can vary wildly by issue. This is why centrism can be successful, because usually most centrist solutions appeal to most people, the only recent exception has been Brexit. Look at recent history, Blair is a centrist, Clegg is a centrist, Cameron is a centrist and even Boris at heart is a centrist.

The only people sitting anywhere other than the centre, soft-left or soft-right are activists and extremists.

The problem is these activists and extremists have considerable sway in our party system because each party requires a party mandate from its members. Centrists don't join political parties because they swing party by election. This is why the Labour Party sings The Red Flag at conference and I bet the current party leader and most MP's cringe at it every single time.

The real problem with politics and why it's so apparently split by left or right is because its currently run by two majority parties whose policy aims are decided by membership bases that make up less than 1% of the population.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

The only people sitting anywhere other than the centre, soft-left or soft-right are activists and extremists.

So you had to widen the definition of centrism to make your point have any coherence.

Thank you for your time.

 

[TheRubberRing]

OK,

Since 1971 I have always voted for the Conservative party, a Margaret Thatcher fan (Although she did have her faults), but I am now totally disillusioned with this shower of s

t who go from crisis to crisis,( I do have a certain amount of sympathy with them because they did have covid19 to deal with, which must have been a nightmare)...but now I have had enough.

Liz Truss and that idiotic chancellor was the last straw.

Now I know Starmer is rather bland and doesn't seem to come up with any policies. just criticise the Tories all the time and I used to hate Angela Rayner but I am coming round to thinking she is OK, talks a lot of sense, even though she lets her mouth get carried away a bit, but time for a new broom?

Thoughts?

hello fellow pistonheader... knew i wasnt going mad

 

[Kompany Car]

So you had to widen the definition of centrism to make your point have any coherence.

Thank you for your time.

Don’t think that response is very fair. Like all things it’s a band around the average. It’s explained in the response where the problem is and that’s with hard left and right having too much of a voice. To me they should be forced to split from the party, Labour and Conservatives for that matter would be much better without them.

As for Rayner if she is soft left then I worry. She’s definitely a Corbynite even though she doesn’t like to admit it and by her own admission is staunchly socialist. She loves the us and them narrative which is divisive and hardly in line with being in a position of power.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

I stopped reading when you said you were a Thatcherite haha. I’d carry on supporting the Cons if I were you. They’re doing a great job

this

 

[inbetween]

So you had to widen the definition of centrism to make your point have any coherence.

Thank you for your time.

It's literally impossible to define soft-left or soft-right, I only mentioned it to say that people have varied views.

Anyone who is soft anything is by definition a centrist. They probably previously voted for Blair however they might also have voted for Cameron.

Those further on the left can't stand centrists because some level of centrist appeasement by any party is the only ticket to electoral success. Amongst other things this lack of appeasement will destroy the Tories at the next election because they are moving further right on many issues, probably because of the threat of the likes of Reform UK.

Ignoring the calamity of the Afghan/Iraq war and being fair, I think you'd struggle to find any normal person who wouldn't have Blair back. I'm hoping that's where Starmer takes Labour.