If you were bobby,..

[AdamManCity]

Was thinking about this the other day, but would wingers see the end of Silva?

I know many here scream out for wingers, but I don't think that's in Mancini's plans at all.
He is not trying to play a Man United, Real Madrid or Bayern Munich kind of game, but more of a Barcelona-type football. The problem is the only team in the world who has reached success with that style is Barcelona so trying to emulate their strategy could prove to be impossible, or at least it would take many many years to master, and the right players of course. The fact they we were very close to sign Sanchez last year, and reports coming in now about our interest in Hazard suggest I'm right.

Here's how a typical Barcelona side looks:

------------------ Pique ---------- Puyol -------------------
Alves ----------------------------------------------- Abidal
------------------------ Busquets ---------------------------
------------------- Xavi ---------- Iniesta -------------------

---Sanchez -------------------------------------- Pedro ---
-------------------------- Messi ------------------------------

The key to their football, is found all the way down in the back line, where good passing, short and long, is absolutely necessary. We don't have a great passing central defender, someone like Vertonghen or even better Hummels. Vinnie is okay.

Then to, what I feel is, possibly the most important position in order to make this system work; the defensive midfielder, the Busquets role. Look at Barca play and notice how much of the build-up which goes via him, how well he gets the ball forward and constantly works together with the two in front of him, Xavi and Iniesta.
De Jong is useless in this position, Mancini knows that and have tried playing YaYa there with limited success. He's got the passing ability but not the stamina. Also he is more needed further up the pitch where he does his best job, in Xavi's position.
So, we absolutely need a new defensive midfielder á la Busquets, and I can't think of anyone more suitable for this than Javi Martinez from Bilbao. (Possibly Yann M'vila could be a decent alternative.)

Silva could be played in the Iniesta position and as said above Yaya in Xavi's.

Surely our interest in Hazard means he will play in Sanhez's position, as a right-sided attacking midfielder/winger. And he will without doubt do a cracking job there.

Our Pedro could have been Balotelli, but that'll never happen. Nasri does not really do his job there but is okay I guess. If the money was available I wouldn't mind seeing Bale or Di Maria there, but for now I assume they would be too expensive.

Up front we have Aguero, so we could look like this:



------------ Kompany ---------- Hummels --------------
Richards ------------------------------------------- Clichy
------------------------ Martinez ---------------------------
----------------- Yaya ------------- Silva -------------------

--- Hazard -------------------------------------- Nasri ---
------------------------- Aguero -----------------------------


And if you put Bale in Nasris place we'd have the best starting XI in the world.

It's a very attack-oriented side, and good passing/control is a must.

So instead of thinking in terms of "we need wingers", I think we should try to think about how to realize and complete the work already begun. So, wingers/wide players would not mean the end of Silva, it would just place him a bit deeper.



Alves drifting up on the right side, or Pedro on the left, but neither of them of course is a wingers. Silva would probably do a very good job playing in Iniesta's role, if he had high quality players such as Busquets and Xavi around him.
Our Xavi could be played by Yaya but we have no one like Busquets, no one even close. If we bought Javi Martinez our Barca-inspired midfield would be complete.

I agree with you that bobby is trying to play similarly to barcelona but he isn't trying to emulate them exactly. When mancini went for sanchez it was to play as the wide man we have been crying out for with silva on the other side. Sanchez would have been a good signing because he is capable of playing all the tippy tappy stuff in the middle as well as attacking the fullback and whipping crosses into the box. When sanchez chose barca and nasri became available mancini decided to sign him as an alternative to sanchez. The confusion with nasri is we all see him as another silva and he sees himself to be playing the same roll as silva cutting inside and trying to pull the strings when really he needs to be out wide trying to beat his fullback and get crosses into the box aswell as cutting inside and trying to dictate the game. We have seen signs of his ability out wide against tottenham away and west brom at home. Mancini imo wants to play more like this:

------------ Kompany ---------- Lescott --------------
Richards ------------------------------------------- Clichy
--------------------Yaya------Martinez -----------------

--- Silva -------------------------------------- Nasri/Hazard ---
------------------- Aguero ------Dzeko/Mario/new signing-------

The way we play now is very close to how he wants us to play imo but we lack width so hazard would hopefully rectify that while Martinez is the type of midfielder we have been crying out for imo, pizarro 10 years younger. And I can't see mancini trying to improve on lescott after the season he has had. Kolarovs crossing ability means he also has a big part to play and the experience we will get from this title run in ,however it ends, will mean we will be a better team come next season<br /><br />-- Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:01 am --<br /><br />

I would go all out for bale especially if spurs dont get CL football, ive never seen hazzard play so I cant really comment on but what we don't need is another silva/nasri/johnson type player we need someone who direct with loads of pace and also helps out the back 4.
In a perfect world we would sign both but that isn't going to happen, johnson is going to leave hopefully for around 10 mill so we can make some profit on him and weiss will return and should be given the pre season to prove himself after two good loan spells. If we do sell him though then a cheap winger like cerci or especially hoilett along with bale could happen.

Bale is too one dimensional to play in our team imo

 

[alky313]

It's incredibly understated how important Alves is. In the way Richards has been good, I do believe Alves would and could win us a title even in our current situation. Yaya is a very good DM. His wages, ethnicity and will to roam led him here.

Richards----Kompany---Martinez----Clichy
----------------------Yaya------------------
--------------Nasri---------Silva------------
Bale----------------Aguero----------Di Maria

Sell Ade, Bridge and some others I'd even entertain Milner. Spend close to £80 on the market and you'll have a team complete to compete. We need a plan A, B, C. Dzeko and Balo are wonderful CFs. Tevez (if we can't sell) can still operate in some deeper roles. If we have real wingers we can let our defenders defend. Having 6 men in attacking positions at all times is important.

Alves averaged closed to 15 assists a year with Sevilla. Richards has 6. If we are committed he must get better. Richards is good. But until he can accomplish double digit assists attacking with our fullbacks will be an issue.

 

[Heart.net]

It's incredibly understated how important Alves is. In the way Richards has been good, I do believe Alves would and could win us a title even in our current situation. Yaya is a very good DM. His wages, ethnicity and will to roam led him here.

Richards----Kompany---Martinez----Clichy
----------------------Yaya------------------
--------------Nasri---------Silva------------
Bale----------------Aguero----------Di Maria

Sell Ade, Bridge and some others I'd even entertain Milner. Spend close to £80 on the market and you'll have a team complete to compete. We need a plan A, B, C. Dzeko and Balo are wonderful CFs. Tevez (if we can't sell) can still operate in some deeper roles. If we have real wingers we can let our defenders defend. Having 6 men in attacking positions at all times is important.

Alves averaged closed to 15 assists a year with Sevilla. Richards has 6. If we are committed he must get better. Richards is good. But until he can accomplish double digit assists attacking with our fullbacks will be an issue.

Like Matt the giant pointed out before, Yaya doesn't have the stamina nor the discipline to play the DM role. That back four will be left very vulnerable.

 

[Matt the Giant]

Like Matt the giant pointed out before, Yaya doesn't have the stamina nor the discipline to play the DM role. That back four will be left very vulnerable.

Using Yaya as a traditional DM would be like using Messi in a central midfield role: he'd do an okay job, but he would be much better in a more natural position.

It's incredibly understated how important Alves is. In the way Richards has been good, I do believe Alves would and could win us a title even in our current situation. Yaya is a very good DM. His wages, ethnicity and will to roam led him here.

Richards----Kompany---Martinez----Clichy
----------------------Yaya------------------
--------------Nasri---------Silva------------
Bale----------------Aguero----------Di Maria.

First of all: His ethnicity led him here? Please do explain.

That midfield would have no chance against a decent side. Yaya would be toast after 30 minutes.
And putting Bale on the right flank seems odd.

Oh, and Alves is about as gettable as Iniesta.

 

[Invisible_Goat]

if i was Mancini or this was champ manager i would:-

Sell players to fund more coming in. Hoepfully should get

Dzeko - £25- £30 mil
Ballotelli - £25 - £30 mil
Dejong - £15 mil
Johnson - £15-£20 mil
Savic - £1 mil
Kolarov - £10 mil
Adabayor - £20-£25 mil
Santa Cruz - £2.5-£5 mil


Sell them all for the best prices possible. Id hope to recouperate atleast £100 mill with these players and sell to buy:-

RVP - £30-£35 mil (due to contract expiring)
Bale - £35-£40 mil (Maybe less)
Hazzard - £25-£30 mil
Cobaye - £10-£15 mil

If we are clever we could also afford someone else in there like a centre back cover to replace Savic.

Keep Tevez if he is willing to play and fight for his place. If not then I'd look for a swap deal with Lavezzi.

If any additonal funds are available buy then Id also try to bring in

Jordi Alba
Another decent centre back cover

This means the best possible team would look like this

Defence options
Richards Kompany Lescott Jordi Alba Zabaletta KToure ? Clichy

Defensive Midfield
Yaya Barry Milner

Box to box
Yaya Cobaye Milner

Att Mid
Silva Nasri Yaya Hazard Milner

Wingers
Bale Hazard Nasri Silva Milner

Forwards

RVP Aguero Tevez or Lavezzi Gudetti

Plus any youth players trying to step through for league cup games

This will options to continue to play 4-3-3 or 4-2-2-2 compact. or go to 4-4-2 and 4-1-3-2 utilising wingers and att midfiled

To give you an insight into how easy it would be to switch tactics but remain with a world class team

4-3-3

--------------------hart----------------------
Richards----Lescott------Kompany----Jordi Alba
------------Cobaye--------Barry--------------
--------------------Yaya---------------------
------Silva--------------------Nasri------
------------------RVP------------------------

4-2-2-2

--------------------hart----------------------
Richards----Lescott------Kompany----Jordi Alba
------------yaya----------Barry/Mlner---------
------------Silva----------Nasri---------------
------------Tevez------Aguero-------------

4-4-2

--------------------hart----------------------
Richards----Lescott------Kompany----Jordi Alba
----------------YaYa--Barry-----------
Hazard-----------------------------------Bale
---------------Aguero--RVP-----------------


4-1-3-2

--------------------hart----------------------
Richards----Lescott------Kompany----Jordi Alba
---------------------Yaya--------------------
-Hazard-------------Silva--------------Bale----
----------------RVP--- Tevez-----------------


4-3-3 with width

--------------------hart----------------------
Richards----Lescott------Kompany----Jordi Alba
--------------------Yaya---------------------
-------------Silva---------Nasri--------------
Hazard--------------------------------Bale----
--------------------RVP----------------------

 

[alky313]

Like Matt the giant pointed out before, Yaya doesn't have the stamina nor the discipline to play the DM role. That back four will be left very vulnerable.

Using Yaya as a traditional DM would be like using Messi in a central midfield role: he'd do an okay job, but he would be much better in a more natural position.

It's incredibly understated how important Alves is. In the way Richards has been good, I do believe Alves would and could win us a title even in our current situation. Yaya is a very good DM. His wages, ethnicity and will to roam led him here.

Richards----Kompany---Martinez----Clichy
----------------------Yaya------------------
--------------Nasri---------Silva------------
Bale----------------Aguero----------Di Maria.

First of all: His ethnicity led him here? Please do explain.

That midfield would have no chance against a decent side. Yaya would be toast after 30 minutes.
And putting Bale on the right flank seems odd.

Oh, and Alves is about as gettable as Iniesta.

I'm not implying that we should buy Alves at all. What I am saying is that believing Richards can supply the width and crosses needed for a plan B is ludicrous. As for Yaya's ethnicity; I do believe that when it comes to Barcelona's policy on homegrown talent or Spanish talent they will always opt for a Spaniard versus someone who isn't.

Barcelona had developed Busquets, needed cash for players and then some. As for the notion that Yaya's isn't fit enough to play the holding midfield role, I find it odd. This is a player who we rely on to charge into the 18 and make deep interceptions at the other end. Yaya steamrolls most of his opponents 2-3 times a game. And should we not forget that he has played this position and won a CL title?

If we are going to win the Champions League with the kid of slow buildup we enjoy to employ then we need to consider that Yaya's maybe more useful defensively than creatively. He is a decent second striker, a decent playmaker but an incredible holding player. The future of our "possession" attack relies on Nasri, Silva and true width or at least players who can operate out there with familiarity.

In the same way Barcelona employ Keita, Mascherano and Real employ Diarra, Sahin and co we can still use the likes of Barry, de Jong and Milner. But truthfully we shouldn't rely on these types of players to get it done every game. Nor should they be our plan A.

So before we get going:

I did not say we should buy Alves. I said Richards is not Alves.

Yaya is not Xavi or Iniesta. He is not creative enough.

With proper marking he can last a full 90 it is proven.

 

[dref619]

If 3 of the 4 strikers do leave, I'd bust my ass if I was him, to get Falcao at city

 

[mcfcdjr]

Id like to see us go into next season with 4 good wingers to provide us with depth and rotation options. My four would be Bale Hoilett Johnson and Weiss. I think with those 4 we would have enough pace and width to cause a lot of trouble for opposition defences. That Kerim Frei from Fulham looks a good prospect too. Would like to see us make a move for him and then loan him out somewhere like swansea or wigan to get him game time.

 

[Matt the Giant]

I'm not implying that we should buy Alves at all. What I am saying is that believing Richards can supply the width and crosses needed for a plan B is ludicrous. As for Yaya's ethnicity; I do believe that when it comes to Barcelona's policy on homegrown talent or Spanish talent they will always opt for a Spaniard versus someone who isn't.

Ah I see. Cheers for clearing that up for me. I thought you meant ethnicity was what lured him here, which I had a hard time understanding. I fully agree though, with your thesis about it could have been why he was pushed out from Barca. Pep wanted him to stay wasn't it so?

As for the notion that Yaya's isn't fit enough to play the holding midfield role, I find it odd.
...don't forget that he has played this position and won a CL title?

Yaya is a big lad, weighs a lot and running around with those kilos drain you of energy and stamina. He's not a very quick player when it comes to positioning and is quite easily beaten by a decent dribbler. He is among the fastest e have after 15 meters or so, but his acceleration is not equally impressive.
Him having played as a DM (and very often as a CB as well) for Barca really doesn't mean a lot now. He's in a completely different team and league now, with it's own preconditions.

But as I said, he can do a decent job as a DM, but he is even better as a CM. Compared to Martinez I think you'd agree that one is a good DM, and the other is a great one. Let's not settle for anything other than great shall we? :)

I did not say we should buy Alves. I said Richards is not Alves.

I know you didn't. Did I imply you did? Sorry then. I as making the point that Alves is unique and we will never be able to use a FB like Barca use Alves, never.

Yaya is not Xavi or Iniesta. He is not creative enough.

Again I agree, but the same could be said for about 99,9% of the players in the world. What Yaya has though, is a very good vision and composure. He is cool on the ball, doesn't like to give away it away. Barca taught him to be a very good passer and that's why I feel he does his best job in centre midfield, and with a great DM behind him and maybe Silva next to him, the battle of possession and chances created would be won already before kick.off, no matter who we played in the PL.[/quote]

Do you see my point of playing Silva a bit deeper, like Iniesta is used in Barca? What do you think about that?

I hate to sound like a broken record, but the prospect of Martinez, Yaya and Silva in the midfield gives me goosebumps.

 

[LoveCity]

If 3 of the 4 strikers do leave, I'd bust my ass if I was him, to get Falcao at city

There is a big argument for Falcao over Van Persie or Cavani. He is less prolific than both but is younger and fitter than Van Persie, and is faster and more agile than Cavani. He isn't a big forward but has great technique and is strong for a fairly small guy, which is why I think he could suit our system very well, with Aguero, Nasri, and Silva.

 

[FantasyIreland]

If 3 of the 4 strikers do leave, I'd bust my ass if I was him, to get Falcao at city

There is a big argument for Falcao over Van Persie or Cavani. He is less prolific than both but is younger and fitter than Van Persie, and is faster and more agile than Cavani. He isn't a big forward but has great technique and is strong for a fairly small guy, which is why I think he could suit our system very well, with Aguero, Nasri, and Silva.

Similar to Suarez,minus being a dirty,despicable cheating cnut,would you say?

 

[LoveCity]

Similar to Suarez,minus being a dirty,despicable cheating cnut,would you say?

More of a centre forward than Suarez who is better as a wide forward IMO as he (Suarez) is not very clinical at all so is better with a good centre forward (which Liverpool don't have). What impresses me about Falcao is that even though he's short he scores lots of headers when crosses are put into the box, his anticipation is world class. But he is fast and skillful (has also played attacking midfield in the past) so would never have to rely on crosses if we don't use wingers. I can understand if Mancini goes for a bigger striker like Cavani if he wants to replace Dzeko/Mario but Falcao could flourish in either our tiki-taka system or one that involves wingers (if we buy Hazard or whoever).

 

[Dax777]

If 3 of the 4 strikers do leave, I'd bust my ass if I was him, to get Falcao at city

There is a big argument for Falcao over Van Persie or Cavani. He is less prolific than both but is younger and fitter than Van Persie, and is faster and more agile than Cavani. He isn't a big forward but has great technique and is strong for a fairly small guy, which is why I think he could suit our system very well, with Aguero, Nasri, and Silva.

How likely is it for Aguero to end up at Madrid? However likely that is, it is a little less likelier that that, that we can get Falcao.

For christsake, he is the guy who replaced the guy we got! For a whooping 40 million. So unless we are looking to pay 65 million, this is as unlikely as getting a player can be.

 

[LoveCity]

If 3 of the 4 strikers do leave, I'd bust my ass if I was him, to get Falcao at city

There is a big argument for Falcao over Van Persie or Cavani. He is less prolific than both but is younger and fitter than Van Persie, and is faster and more agile than Cavani. He isn't a big forward but has great technique and is strong for a fairly small guy, which is why I think he could suit our system very well, with Aguero, Nasri, and Silva.

How likely is it for Aguero to end up at Madrid? However likely that is, it is a little less likelier that that, that we can get Falcao.

For christsake, he is the guy who replaced the guy we got! For a whooping 40 million. So unless we are looking to pay 65 million, this is as unlikely as getting a player can be.

According to Rupert Fryer (South American football journo), he isn't owned by Atletico Madrid so we'd have to buy him from a third party. Also, his agent is Jorge Mendes (same as Mourinho) who is in bed with City now.

 

[Dax777]

There is a big argument for Falcao over Van Persie or Cavani. He is less prolific than both but is younger and fitter than Van Persie, and is faster and more agile than Cavani. He isn't a big forward but has great technique and is strong for a fairly small guy, which is why I think he could suit our system very well, with Aguero, Nasri, and Silva.

How likely is it for Aguero to end up at Madrid? However likely that is, it is a little less likelier that that, that we can get Falcao.

For christsake, he is the guy who replaced the guy we got! For a whooping 40 million. So unless we are looking to pay 65 million, this is as unlikely as getting a player can be.

According to Rupert Fryer (South American football journo), he isn't owned by Atletico Madrid so we'd have to buy him from a third party. Also, his agent is Jorge Mendes (same as Mourinho) who is in bed with City now.

So Athletico paid 40 mil to not own rights? That doesn't make sense to me. Someone needs firing if that is true. Besides, doesn't that just mean if he gets sold, Athletico gets less of the income? As ownership of the player has no relevance on his contract signed with the new club. So if true he is not owned by Atlethico, it is even more unlikely they will let him ut of his contract. Seeing as they would be getting only a % of the sale.

 

[scenecreamer]

I still don't rate hazard as a wide player.

Eden could absolutely play wide for City. No, you do not see him crossing the ball all that often, but that is not what Lille ask him to do. They often rely on 1-2's down the right hand side and Eden works them beautifully with Mathieu Debuchy. In fact, when Nolan Roux (Lille's best striker right now) is on the pitch, there is really no one to even cross the ball to since Nolan is more of a finesse player.

Nevertheless, it is worth mentioning that Eden is a tremendous taker of (indirect) free kicks - better than anyone on City. He is also faster and "trickier" than anyone City currently play wide. His ability to beat defenders one on one and experience working 1-2's (with the likes of Debuchy, Roux, Dmitri Payet, etc) alone make him worth buying.

Would he provide the service that a target man like Dzeko needs? Perhaps not, but he certainly would force defenders to stray from the middle of the pitch and Nasri and Silva would love playing with him.

David, is that you?

What's wrong with your ankle?

 

[LoveCity]

So Athletico paid 40 mil to not own rights? That doesn't make sense to me. Someone needs firing if that is true. Besides, doesn't that just mean if he gets sold, Athletico gets less of the income? As ownership of the player has no relevance on his contract signed with the new club. So if true he is not owned by Atlethico, it is even more unlikely they will let him ut of his contract. Seeing as they would be getting only a % of the sale.

<a class="postlink" href="https://twitter.com/#!/Rupert_Fryer/status/185377945341267969" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://twitter.com/#!/Rupert_Fryer/sta ... 5341267969</a>

 

[dref619]

Similar to Suarez,minus being a dirty,despicable cheating cnut,would you say?

More of a centre forward than Suarez who is better as a wide forward IMO as he (Suarez) is not very clinical at all so is better with a good centre forward (which Liverpool don't have). What impresses me about Falcao is that even though he's short he scores lots of headers when crosses are put into the box, his anticipation is world class. But he is fast and skillful (has also played attacking midfield in the past) so would never have to rely on crosses if we don't use wingers. I can understand if Mancini goes for a bigger striker like Cavani if he wants to replace Dzeko/Mario but Falcao could flourish in either our tiki-taka system or one that involves wingers (if we buy Hazard or whoever).

bingo, cavani is brilliant no doubt about that. but him and edin both rely on service from wide alot of the time, whereas falcao is a great fit for the system we use now, and is as equally effective in a system with a winger. brilliant player

 

[Dax777]

So Athletico paid 40 mil to not own rights? That doesn't make sense to me. Someone needs firing if that is true. Besides, doesn't that just mean if he gets sold, Athletico gets less of the income? As ownership of the player has no relevance on his contract signed with the new club. So if true he is not owned by Atlethico, it is even more unlikely they will let him ut of his contract. Seeing as they would be getting only a % of the sale.

<a class="postlink" href="https://twitter.com/#!/Rupert_Fryer/status/185377945341267969" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://twitter.com/#!/Rupert_Fryer/sta ... 5341267969</a>

To believe Fryer, one would have to suspend knowledge of everything below.
Bought for 34 million, can rise to 38 million and signed for 5 years. I don't care who owns the rights to his transfer fee, but that person cannot override his 5 year contract at A.Madrid. And if they do, they'd have to pay the 35 million on top of any profit A.Madrid would believe they deserve.
I don't believe Fryer. But even if he were telling the truth, there is still a 5 year contract in place for the hottest transfer in Spain last summer. It makes no logical sense. The fact that we also just took their previous top scorer this past summer, makes it doubly unlikely. Common sense suggests Fryer is blowing nothing but hot air.

Atlético Madrid have bought the Colombia striker Radamel Falcao from Porto, in a Portuguese record transfer deal worth €40m (£34.7m). The Portuguese club said in a statement to the Lisbon stock exchange that the price tag could rise to €47m, depending on unspecified factors.

Atlético said on their website that Falcao had agreed a five-year contract and was scheduled to arrive in the Spanish capital for standard medical tests later on Friday.

Falcao was a key player for Porto last season, scoring 34 goals to help them win four trophies, including the Portuguese title and the Europa League. He will fill the role vacated by the Argentina striker Sergio Agüero, who has joined Manchester City in a £38m deal.

The 25-year-old Falcao scored the only goal in the Europa League final in Dublin, against Sporting Braga, to set a record of 17 goals in the second-tier competition. Chelsea were reportedly interested in Falcao. The Premier League club's new manager, André Villas-Boas, was in charge of Porto last season.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011/aug/19/atletico-madrid-radamel-falcao-porto" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2011 ... lcao-porto</a>