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Ilkay Gundogan - 2017/18 performances
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These are the games he's fantastic in. Still feel he struggles against the teams that take it to us, but when we're playing teams who sit back & defend (the vast majority of teams!) he's been top notch.
He's a great acquisition & will continue to prove his worth.
He's a great acquisition & will continue to prove his worth.
In fairness, we have never seen him play at DM against anyone without success. The notion he will be good against ''just certain teams who don't press" is an assumption that has no basis in evidence.What is the similarity about all these teams? they try to play football. They do not blitz you with super hard pressing and indeed some serious/dangerous challenges. He has good reason to be wary of that so i doubt @quiet_riot is criticizing him as a fair weather, just stating a fact such as it is. There are as you both note plenty of matches perfectly suited to him, he certainly has a place here. There are also matches where he is best kept as a sub to come and help control and dictate the tempo to a slightly tired oppo.
Tothenham and Arsenal are the 2nd and third best "pressing teams" in the league if you exclude us. And Chelsea ( the away version) is probably in the top 10. And Gundogan excelled against all 3.
He didn't play DM against the only superior press team in the league, Liverpool... So we can't say for a fact he can't handle them.
In essence, he can play DM against absolutely anyone in the league, bar Liverpool. And seeing as no one we've played at DM against Liverpool has succeeded against their press, it is only fair to conclude he can play DM against anyone in the league.
As the only team he '''might" fail against, everyone else (i.e Dihno) has already failed against.
As for people putting in rash tackles. That affects our attacking players more. Not the guy rotating possession efficiently.
As far as playing DM is concerned, I'd have no worries playing him there against anyone. He is different from Dihno, but not necessarily weaker.
It's like Delph or Mendy... They play it differently. But one isn't necessarily better. The path is different but outcomes are pretty similar. We win!
Delphacito
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So @Andrew___K are you ready to admit now that Gundogan can play pivot for a Pep team?
What is the similarity about all these teams? they try to play football. They do not blitz you with super hard pressing and indeed some serious/dangerous challenges. He has good reason to be wary of that so i doubt @quiet_riot is criticizing him as a fair weather, just stating a fact such as it is. There are as you both note plenty of matches perfectly suited to him, he certainly has a place here. There are also matches where he is best kept as a sub to come and help control and dictate the tempo to a slightly tired oppo.
Sorry but you're actually trying to argue Spurs are a team to who don't blitz you with hard pressing and dangerous tackles?
Have you ever watched them? Quite apart from the fact they are 1 of 3 great pressing sides in the country, does someone need to show you the 3 legbreakers - Alli on KDB, Kane on Sterling, Davies on Kompany - they've put in over 180 minutes against us?
Neville Kneville
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He was great yesterday, but even then got badly mugged on one occasion, as the deepest midfielder, which would have been a big problem v a decent attack, & was the weakest creative player outside & around the oppo box, particularly noticable when Yaya came on & completely outclassed him, playing the same position.
He is a good player but we can do better, in every aspect imo.
He is a good player but we can do better, in every aspect imo.
He was great yesterday, but even then got badly mugged on one occasion, as the deepest midfielder, which would have been a big problem v a decent attack, & was the weakest creative player outside & around the oppo box, particularly noticable when Yaya came on & completely outclassed him, playing the same position.
He is a good player but we can do better, in every aspect imo.
You hatred for Gundogan is really quite bizarre.
Neville Kneville
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You hatred for Gundogan is really quite bizarre. Yaya outclassed him? Please.
Don't understand why that comment is neccessary. I was very keen to sign Gundogan. Just don't think he's as good as any of our other mids or attackers.
Have a look at Yaya's passes into the box compared to Gundogan's, from the same position.
He was a much better player for City & for Barca & he showed a difference in quality. Had he been 5 years younger, the difference would be immense.
If we want a non tackling, average to poor defensive player as our deep midfielder, then Yaya was a whole level better & that is the level we should aim for imo.
If Gundogan suddenly reaches that level, I'll be delighted, but I don't think he has anything like Yaya's ability as a footballer.
Don't understand why that comment is neccessary. I was very keen to sign Gundogan. Just don't think he's as good as any of our other mids or attackers.
Have a look at Yaya's passes into the box compared to Gundogan's, form the same position.
He was a much better player for City & for Barca & he showed a difference in quality. Had he been 5 years younger, the difference would be immense.
If we want a non tackling, average to poor defensive player as our deep midfielder, then Yaya was a whole level better & that is the level we should aim for imo.
If Gundogan suddenly reaches that level, I'll be delighted, but I don't think he has anything like Yaya's ability as a footballer.
He's an exceptional back up midfielder who's shown he can play out of position at the base of midfield against a bunch of the best sides in the league, as well as deputising for KDB and Silva.
Then comparing him to Yaya, when Yaya came on against a Swansea side that had literally given up and were standing still while allowing him 10 yards of space and 5 minutes to waddle about before picking a pass. It's a completely ridiculous comparison, and I don't remember you calling for Yaya to start ahead of Gundogan away at Chelsea or Spurs.
Oh boo fucking hoo he's not as good as Yaya, one of the best midfielders of t he last 20 years, was at his peak. Unless you've got a 25 year old Yaya Touré hanging around minus the shit agent and propensity to pile on weight every summer, I don't see the relevance.
In fact even if you did, it still wouldn't be reason to get rid of Gundogan who'd rightfully still be in the squad.
He'd walk into the starting XI of every other side in the country, as well as some of our European 'rivals' and we will not find a better player who'll accept not starting every week because of his previous injuries.
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TravisBickle
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You hatred for Gundogan is really quite bizarre.
Very bizarre indeed.
He was simply majestic yesterday.
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