Ilkay Gundogan - 2018/19 performances

[Easy]

You prove my point. In actual fact, Foden's last appearance was relatively poor, and I speak as someone who is a fan and desperately wants him to succeed. He gave the ball away on several occasions, trying to make a killer pass when it wasn't on. Part of the reason for our success is our patience; retaining possession over and over, recirculating until we create a decisive opening and then springing the attack. Because people are desperate for Phil to be a success, they use his lack of opportunity as a stick to beat Gundogan with. Similarly, in the Watford game, Gundogan created a simple passing oppportunity for Delph who chose a different option and lost the ball. Delph is a very good player and a team asset, but he made a mistake that led to the Watford goal and yet he is not being called out for it because he is not in a prospect's way; he, in reality, is cover.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that Gundogan is an absolute world class star, at the top of the tree within our squad. I am saying that he is a valuable player who contributes to a good level. Those players are just as needed in a world class outfit as the stellar world stars.

Yes, you’ve taken Phil’s worst cameo, his last one and I agree completely, he tried to do too much but this was the exception not the norm. Please looks at all his other cameos. I am not one of those posters desperate for Phil to play and succeed because I know it will come just a question of when. Therefore I look at both players performances objectively and Gundogan simply doesn’t offer enough.

But you haven’t answered any of my questions. Do you recall Gundogan playing any through balls recently or at all? Do you think he deserves a wage increase and extension?

 

[SebastianBlue]

You prove my point. In actual fact, Foden's last appearance was relatively poor, and I speak as someone who is a fan and desperately wants him to succeed. He gave the ball away on several occasions, trying to make a killer pass when it wasn't on. Part of the reason for our success is our patience; retaining possession over and over, recirculating until we create a decisive opening and then springing the attack. Because people are desperate for Phil to be a success, they use his lack of opportunity as a stick to beat Gundogan with. Similarly, in the Watford game, Gundogan created a simple passing oppportunity for Delph who chose a different option and lost the ball. Delph is a very good player and a team asset, but he made a mistake that led to the Watford goal and yet he is not being called out for it because he is not in a prospect's way; he, in reality, is cover.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that Gundogan is an absolute world class star, at the top of the tree within our squad. I am saying that he is a valuable player who contributes to a good level. Those players are just as needed in a world class outfit as the stellar world stars.

I think you’ll find Fabian as been brought up on that mistake quite a bit, to the point that there are people calling for him to be dropped in the Chelsea pre-match thread (fairly heated discussion ensued amongst quite a few posters in that case).

There was also discussion about Foden trying to hard in that cameo you reference, andant argued it was an example of why he wasn’t quite ready to usurp Gundogan.

As @Neville Kneville alluded to, I think you may not be seeing either body of criticism as existing (or, at least, equivalent), because it doesn’t align with the base assumption that only Ilkay gets that sort of criticism as our “boo boy”.

 

[Rolee]

Imo, the bias in Gundogan's case, is in favour of him & manifests itself as people defending him when he's been a complete waste of space, or rating middling performances as something special. And then come the accusations, for those who don't tow that line.

As for mentioning specifics, it would be much easier to point out something worthwhile Gundongan did, v Watford, rather than pick out specific faults.

How do you discuss fuck all ? Which was his contribution with & without the ball.

In the second half v Southampton, there were many incidents could be picked out to praise him, but it's quicker & easier to say he was really good.

As it is to say that v Watford, he was shite.

Cop out. His performance was middling, didn't merit highlighting post game, if I'm wrong the please explain with examples why I am.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Cop out. His performance was middling, didn't merit highlighting post game, if I'm wrong the please explain with examples why I am.

He's gone from 'fine' to 'middling'.

Just say 'shite'.

You know you want to really.

 

[Rolee]

He's gone from 'fine' to 'middling'.

Just say 'shite'.

You know you want to really.

Same difference for me, I'm still waiting. I'm in fact wondering whether you watched the game at all.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Same difference for me, I'm still waiting. I'm in fact wondering whether you watched the game at all.

I'll just say 'everything he did was shit' & you can pick out the bits which weren't.

 

[Rolee]

I'll just say 'everything he did was shit' & you can pick out the bits which weren't.

Another cop out.

 

[Neville Kneville]

Another cop out.

But I'm confortable with it nontheless.

 

[oldius]

I think you’ll find Fabian as been brought up on that mistake quite a bit, to the point that there are people calling for him to be dropped in the Chelsea pre-match thread (fairly heated discussion ensued amongst quite a few posters in that case).

There was also discussion about Foden trying to hard in that cameo you reference, andant argued it was an example of why he wasn’t quite ready to usurp Gundogan.

As @Neville Kneville alluded to, I think you may not be seeing either body of criticism as existing (or, at least, equivalent), because it doesn’t align with the base assumption that only Ilkay gets that sort of criticism as our “boo boy”.

I don't want to call Fabien out; I am highlighting that certain players are treated unfavourably and Gundogan and Jesus are the latest. It's a long line and our club is known for it. Just to clarify, Gundogan has made six starts in the PL this season. We are too concerned by individuals and call out players too readily. Gundogan is an asset and I am pleased Pep thinks the same.

 

[oldius]

Yes, you’ve taken Phil’s worst cameo, his last one and I agree completely, he tried to do too much but this was the exception not the norm. Please looks at all his other cameos. I am not one of those posters desperate for Phil to play and succeed because I know it will come just a question of when. Therefore I look at both players performances objectively and Gundogan simply doesn’t offer enough.

But you haven’t answered any of my questions. Do you recall Gundogan playing any through balls recently or at all? Do you think he deserves a wage increase and extension?

As my post states, in just six PL starts, Gundogan has 3 goals, 2 assists and a pass completion of 92.5%, the best in his career.
Regarding the view of too many sideways passes, that is a regular part of our game and something instructed by the coaching team. Luring teams from their defensive shell with overwhelming possession and then hitting them hard. It is clear to me that Gundogan is following instruction.
Do I think he deserves a contract extension - not particularly.
A wage rise - I have no idea what he is on.
There aren't many 29 year olds I would offer that too.