Ilkay Gundogan - 2019/20 Performances

[Dax777]

It is extremely problematic because we introduce 2 midfielders into a midfield 3 that are a mixed bag. When it was a Fern, KDB and Silva midfield it was easy to watch them and know what each of them brought to the midfield. We had far and away the best midfield in the country.

I am not convinced what Rodri excels at. He is fine when the ball is in and around his space (basically a 5 yard circle around him) but off the ball, not so much. He adds next to nothing to our attacks and lets face it, he is hardly ripping it up defensively.

Throw Gundogan in as well, you pretty much lose any ideas of pressing from the 8s and again he is not an attacking midfielder, or a defensive one. He is a 6 in this side, recycling possession and that is it.

If we are going to have 2 out of 3 midfielders that don’t particularly excel at either attacking or defending, we would be better off gong down the scouse route of putting legs in there.

You've made a theoretical argument of why Gundogan/Rodri combo is bad. If you check the last post on the pregame thread, it was mine making this very point.

While I theoretically agree with your point, it wasn't a significant issue today. We were missing chances and making poor decisions on the final pass.

What Rodri and Gundogan bring is consistent possesiob, and in that respect we were dominant. That possesiob makes it impossible for the opposition to get the ball or attack us.

So if you've wanted to know, that's what they bring. The problem is Bernado gives us similar with a better eye for attacking. Hence why I prefer him to tone of these.

But for today, it was finishing and final 3rd decision making that let us down. Not a possession heavy midfield.

 

[OrigamiNinja]

You've made a theoretical argument of why Gundogan/Rodri combo is bad. If you check the last post on the pregame thread, it was mine making this very point.

While I theoretically agree with your point, it wasn't a significant issue today. We were missing chances and making poor decisions on the final pass.

What Rodri and Gundogan bring is consistent possesiob, and in that respect we were dominant. That possesiob makes it impossible for the opposition to get the ball or attack us.

So if you've wanted to know, that's what they bring. The problem is Bernado gives us similar with a better eye for attacking. Hence why I prefer him to tone of these.

But for today, it was finishing and final 3rd decision making that let us down. Not a possession heavy midfield.

It is largely consistent, dominant possession that goes nowhere though. We have a full back 4 four unit that can only pass sideways, add another two in front of them is just terrible. If the future holds Rodri and Gundogan playing regularly together, we can forget about a serious title challenge next season.

 

[Dax777]

It is largely consistent, dominant possession that goes nowhere though. We have a full back 4 four unit that can only pass sideways, add another two in front of them is just terrible. If the future holds Rodri and Gundogan playing regularly together, we can forget about a serious title challenge next season.

They won't play together in a 433 much I don't think.

But I must say we are having an unusually unlucky season. We are scoring less from the same chances as last year and conceding more from similar chances as last year :(

 

[ws01]

An ineffective, downhill skier who makes the team around him worse. Slows everything down to a standstill still stifling our attack, and leaves gaps the size of the Grand Canyon in defence, exposing our backline.

We've seen this script before, seen the same symptoms. We knew what the cause was, so don't let anyone tell you otherwise - our midfield has been the number one problem this season. If you're defending Gundogan by saying he's not a problem, you do not have a proper understanding of the game.

 

[WallyA]

You've made a theoretical argument of why Gundogan/Rodri combo is bad. If you check the last post on the pregame thread, it was mine making this very point.

While I theoretically agree with your point, it wasn't a significant issue today. We were missing chances and making poor decisions on the final pass.

What Rodri and Gundogan bring is consistent possesiob, and in that respect we were dominant. That possesiob makes it impossible for the opposition to get the ball or attack us.

So if you've wanted to know, that's what they bring. The problem is Bernado gives us similar with a better eye for attacking. Hence why I prefer him to tone of these.

But for today, it was finishing and final 3rd decision making that let us down. Not a possession heavy midfield.

I think you can play Rodri and Gundogan together, the problem is playing both with Zinchenko. That's 3 players all basically playing the same defensive controlling midfield role, its highly redundant.

If we played with high attacking fullbacks (even just one), then those 2 together would work imo. The centerbacks can part with Rodri occasionally slotting between them and Gundogan just ahead of him.

I think a shape like this would makes sense for example:
----------------Aguero-------------
Mendy---Sterling---Kevin----Mahrez
---------Gundogan-----Rodri
Laporte-----Dinho-----Walker

Its basically a 4231 tilted to the left to let Mendy stay wide left, the personnel today had this below


----------Aguero------
Sterling----Kevin-----Mahrez
Zinchenko--Gundogan--Rodri
Dinho---Otamendi---Walker

This is an unnecessary amount of defensive players as Gundogan could not provide the same attacking outlet as Sterling or Bernardo, and Zinchenko cannot play wide.

Personally though, I think we are best in a 3241 (like my first one), with Mahrez in Kevin's role, Kevin in Rodri's role, and Cancelo out wide, and when we used it, it was very successful, why Pep refuses to go back to it is beyond me. Selling Angelino makes it harder to use but with Sane he might do it again, Sane and Cancelo out wide could be very dangerous.

 

[MeatHunterrr]

An ineffective, downhill skier who makes the team around him worse. Slows everything down to a standstill still stifling our attack, and leaves gaps the size of the Grand Canyon in defence, exposing our backline.

We've seen this script before, seen the same symptoms. We knew what the cause was, so don't let anyone tell you otherwise - our midfield has been the number one problem this season. If you're defending Gundogan by saying he's not a problem, you do not have a proper understanding of the game.

Worryingly he will play at Bernabeu, Pep's logic will be that he can pass the ball well thus helping us control proceedings even though its the safest possession ever, which is only useful if we are leading and want to see the game out.

 

[Dax777]

An ineffective, downhill skier who makes the team around him worse. Slows everything down to a standstill still stifling our attack, and leaves gaps the size of the Grand Canyon in defence, exposing our backline.

We've seen this script before, seen the same symptoms. We knew what the cause was, so don't let anyone tell you otherwise - our midfield has been the number one problem this season. If you're defending Gundogan by saying he's not a problem, you do not have a proper understanding of the game.

The facts just don't agree with your delusion.

 

[ws01]

What are you talking about? What are these 'facts' that you keep rambling on about like some fat Spanish Waiter?

If you took of your blinkers and managed to understand the game you'd see that the guy is dogshit - end of.

 

[RayCTID]

In the same bracket as Samir Nasri. Not many supporters who can really take to him but he is good at what he can do.

 

[kaz7]

He's a mercenary prick. Can fuck off.

Really,calm down