Is train travel in the UK expensive? Or am I missing something? Serious question

[cyan]

I like using the train. Yes there are sometimes problems and it can be frustrating when you are unsure how they will be resolved (as often are the platform staff). It can of course means that Delay/Repay means you travel for free - but of course thats not a great consolation if you really want to get somewhere for a particular time. I have inn the past travelled for free and been put in a taxi to ensure I got home when the delay meant the last train was missed.

As to cost I do have the advantage of a Senior Railcard reducing fares by 30% and living near enough to a station to make it an option. Often it's a cost/benefit analysis - do I want to drive? Do I want a drink? Do I want to navigate a busy city? Do I want to find parking? and in my case, where can I find a suitable charger? If I can get where I am going with minimum changes by train then I will look to use it. Sometimes I intentionally use the train so that I will slow down and enjoy the experience - rather than rushing to be somewhere. I like that a train puts me in the middle of a city. When I try to compare costs with travelling by car I often found it similar if I'm on my own - but of course as soon as there are two or more of you then the cost of car travel comes down in proportion - trains become more expensive!

But, I do also want us to have a good rail network and that means that sometimes I'm prepared to use and pay to use it to ensure it survives and to encourage more investment - because a good rail and bus network has to be better than putting more and more pressure on roads.

 

[uweuweuwe]

Often get trains in Europe and spent this summer getting tains around Germany. frustrating its cheaper and more reliable than we get here. The irony is that operators of these services across Europe are also share holders in all these rail companies that offer a second rate services we have to put up with.

 

[Millwallawayveteran1988]

Just paid £10 - Warrington - Manc return. I think that’s fair.

Warrington to London - £117 - too much

 

[dronefromsector7G]

Manchester to London showing as £228 right now. An Uber is about £400.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Quite a few are Deutches bahn owned, like Chiltern and Arriva.

Arrive were sold to yanks by deutches bahn in 2024.

 

[Oyster28catcher]

Bobbins train services now. Used to be simple. Terrible prices. Comparable to few other countries in terms of value etc

 

[cleavers]

Arrive were sold to yanks by deutches bahn in 2024.

Didn't know that, I know Chiltern are owned by Arriva, and it used to say "A DB company" haven't looked recently as I don't really use their trains much any more.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

FFS Piccadilly station will be completely closed at February half term from 14 - 22 February!

 

[urban genie]

Every time I try book tickets to anywhere it’s

1. Very complicated - change here, change there, change every fucking where……..
2. Very expensive. - if I don’t want to change here, change there, change every fucking where……

I also have a railcard but bargains seem hard to find.

Has anybody got any hints or tips on how to get cheap train travel?

Help with this would be appreciated.

Expensive, convoluted and messy

Privatisation is shite and anyone saying it hasn't fucked over the public and left us ripped off is blind, well off or fucking idiotic

 

[Kippax Street 1880]

Coming back from the Netherlands where you can just tap your card and walk on a train and it automatically charges you the lowest price, a dream compared to ours I avoid using unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Grassland Blue]

Expensive, convoluted and messy

Privatisation is shite and anyone saying it hasn't fucked over the public and left us ripped off is blind, well off or fucking idiotic

John Major was wrong to privatise the railway in Britain, and the way it was carried out was shambolic.
Privatisation never really worked properly (a bit like var in football lol) and ,more seriously, led to some terrible accidents. (Hatfield, Ladbroke Grove and Potters Bar being examples) and other close calls. The 'separation of wheel from rail' became a tragic reality and a shocking waste of money and resources.
On top of that, the number of train cancellations rose dramatically.
The sooner the railways are brought back into public ownership and it becomes a single entity once more, the better for everyone.

 

[mexico1970]

I go to Preston fairly regularly and it's as cheap as chips, going to places on your own time can be a bargain but they trap commuters in the net every time.

 

[Vic]

Every time I try book tickets to anywhere it’s

1. Very complicated - change here, change there, change every fucking where……..
2. Very expensive. - if I don’t want to change here, change there, change every fucking where……

I also have a railcard but bargains seem hard to find.

Has anybody got any hints or tips on how to get cheap train travel?

Help with this would be appreciated.

Sorry I'm late to the thread....

Start with a good fare splitting site - like Trainsplit, preferably the "old look" site: https://classic.trainsplit.com/

When you say "change here..." might that mean you don't change trains but just have different leg tickets on the same train? One worry is that with separate advance tickets for particular trains you might miss a connection, but the terms and conditions should abide by international European railway agreements that mean you can use a later train (even if a different company to the one that delayed you). But use the "flexible" option and prices are often not much dearer than particular trains - but even flexible may not mean "any train" but have restrictions (e.g. with most local "off peak" tickets to Manchester you can't leave before 0930 (Mon-Fri) and can't come back between 1600 and 1830.

Depending on what they run on; electricity is far too expensive and diesel is far too expensive… if they were cheaper, would the train fares be cheaper?

Looking at train prices from Manchester to London, next Saturday as a random example: I’ve found one option that comes to £58.79 return… good price! However, if that particular option sells out, the prices start to get to £175.49 next and then 190.79 and then they’re over £200.

.....

The off peak return Manchester to London is £114 - any train at weekends.

Even there, you could get it down to £108 by only using the once an hour train that calls at Milton Keynes (off peak return to MK (£89.10), then super off peak return MK to Euston (£18.90). If you buy through https://classic.trainsplit.com they add on 15% of what they save (so 90p - but Trainline adds commission even to fares where they don't save you anything, presumably to pay for all their advertising...)

The government said years ago that every company should offer split fares, but so far as I know only Scotrail does it - for their trains in Scotland.

But some of the company sites are appalling - they will show first the "cheap" advance tickets for particular trains, even if the out and back advance tickets add up to more than the any train off peak ticket - that will be there but you might have to scroll down for it.

My anytime return tickets to Euston (which work pay for) are £398. My return flights to Switzerland are £351. It’s mental.

If companies are daft enough to pay for anytime tickets ...

Unless your train gets in Euston before 1130, you can do it a lot cheaper even using any train. (I'll take a finders fee from your firm.)

It's a piss take out of the passengers and front line employees of the railway who take the brunt of the complaints/abuse whilst companies like the Trainline take huge profits out of the industry which could be used to reinvest into the infrastructure.

People are playing huge fares they might not begrudge it if they had decent length trains with a guaranteed seat and decent WiFi.

The fare structure is deliberately structured to be complicated and it's all weighed in favour off the Train Operating Companies.

Ticketing rules get get changed as and when they feel like it with little or no notice to staff or fare paying passengers.

Also, the way the fares are divvied out is being overridden by by greedy TOCs oversubscribing advance tickets which are heavily abused in use who keep all the revenue from them which goes straight to the "stakeholders".

For example. One oversubscribed advance tickets to a holiday destination knowing damn well they didn't have the capacity of train services to carry them. Their alternative? Put buses on. That way they get the revenue plus a huge bung from the DFT for providing their own buses.

The over pricing of tickets hit home for me during COVID. 5% of normal levels travelling. Yet I was on strike for pay despite the company making a 20 million pounds in profit! That screams rip off.

To see how complicated it is (and how many fares between any two destinations), try www.brfares.com

At least they plan is to get rid of the stupid fares from the airport to town, with TOCs offering different single fares and visitors expected to distinguish between them.

 

[Grassland Blue]

Sorry I'm late to the thread....

Start with a good fare splitting site - like Trainsplit, preferably the "old look" site: https://classic.trainsplit.com/

When you say "change here..." might that mean you don't change trains but just have different leg tickets on the same train? One worry is that with separate advance tickets for particular trains you might miss a connection, but the terms and conditions should abide by international European railway agreements that mean you can use a later train (even if a different company to the one that delayed you). But use the "flexible" option and prices are often not much dearer than particular trains - but even flexible may not mean "any train" but have restrictions (e.g. with most local "off peak" tickets to Manchester you can't leave before 0930 (Mon-Fri) and can't come back between 1600 and 1830.



The off peak return Manchester to London is £114 - any train at weekends.

Even there, you could get it down to £108 by only using the once an hour train that calls at Milton Keynes (off peak return to MK (£89.10), then super off peak return MK to Euston (£18.90). If you buy through https://classic.trainsplit.com they add on 15% of what they save (so 90p - but Trainline adds commission even to fares where they don't save you anything, presumably to pay for all their advertising...)

The government said years ago that every company should offer split fares, but so far as I know only Scotrail does it - for their trains in Scotland.

But some of the company sites are appalling - they will show first the "cheap" advance tickets for particular trains, even if the out and back advance tickets add up to more than the any train off peak ticket - that will be there but you might have to scroll down for it.





If companies are daft enough to pay for anytime tickets ...

Unless your train gets in Euston before 1130, you can do it a lot cheaper even using any train. (I'll take a finders fee from your firm.)





To see how complicated it is (and how many fares between any two destinations), try www.brfares.com

At least they plan is to get rid of the stupid fares from the airport to town, with TOCs offering different single fares and visitors expected to distinguish between them.

The National Rail website used to be quite good to use (for times and as a guide to price) but the new version is clunky and frustrating.