Israel-Palestine Conflict

[SWP's back]

Stil doesn't make it their land. If simple conquest made land "your" land, how would Israel have had any right to any land in the area?

By terrorism against the same British authorities who had promised them a home?

If I try punch you and you give me a good hiding then who’s at fault?

 

[Mike D]

If I try punch you and you give me a good hiding then who’s at fault?

Now that depends who you are doesn't it? if you're names a shall we say Hamas then you were probably asking for it and you should not have been stood their and deserved it anyway because you were thinking about committing an act of terror.

 

[SWP's back]

Now that depends who you are doesn't it? if you're names a shall we say Hamas then you were probably asking for it and you should not have been stood their and deserved it anyway because you were thinking about committing an act of terror.

You’ll see from this thread that I’m very against the recent reaction by Israeli soldiers.

That doesn’t mean I think Israel has no right to exist nor that I blame them for increasing their size every time their neighbours illegally attacked them and lost.

 

[Mike D]

You’ll see from this thread that I’m very against the recent reaction by Israeli soldiers.

That doesn’t mean I think Israel has no right to exist nor that I blame them for increasing their size every time their neighbours illegally attacked them and lost.

Nobody is saying that but why are Isreal never challenged when it is committing some of the most horrific crimes to humanity? I have nothing against Isreal or its people but the Isreal government is a nasty vile group of legitimised terrorist group. The foot soldiers are just that its the government pumping out the propaganda that legitimises the shoot first ask questions later policy

 

[west didsblue]

It wasn't their land to trade.

To be fair, apart from trading the Sinai for a peace deal with Egypt the other handovers of land haven't gone particularly well. The withdrawal from South Lebanon has enabled Hezbollah to amass an arsenal of over 100,000 rockets pointed at Israel and the withdrawal from Gaza led to Hamas taking over and thanks to their continued attempts to kill Israelis led to the blockade and the current situation. You can see why those two experiences make Israel think twice about withdrawing from occupied land without some cast iron guarantees that these areas will not become launching grounds for future attacks on Israel.

 

[The blue phantom]

Nobody is saying that but why are Isreal never challenged when it is committing some of the most horrific crimes to humanity?

A one simple word answer to that mate. America.

 

[Mike D]

A one simple word answer to that mate. America.

Agreed

 

[blueonblue]

an arsenal of over 100,000 rockets pointed at Israel

Oh please, they are little more than glorified fireworks an you know it, just how many fatalities have Israel "Endured" from the total number used in all the years its been occupying ?, you condone the use of bombs and missiles in densely populated area`s, any one of which has killed far more that that total, as Israel "Defending its self".

Without the yanks blocking Israel would have been sanctioned out of existence a long time ago.

 

[cucumberman]

I’d say that it IS the green parts that are the issue as they are the most misleading parts of the maps, particularly the first and third maps, where Ottoman, Jordanian and Egyptian controlled lands are incorrectly labelled Palestinian.
There is an equally valid argument that the Israelis have traded land for peace since 1973 by handing over the Sinai, Gaza, South Lebanon and parts of the West Bank reducing the area under Israeli control by around two thirds.

That's the key word then would you admit? since you used it, "controlled".

I assume when you say Ottoman you mean the first map.
It's true that the Ottoman had control over the lands, but ownership were still Arab Palestinians, and the Ottomans themselves called the land Palestine.

During Ottoman's control and after, the UNCCP held records of more than 530,000 land ownership documents for Arab Palestinians. I mentioned this in my previous post. Although you may want to insist the first map being a blank canvas of Ottoman Empire, the evidence and documents are there that

1. The lands the Ottoman controlled were individually assigned before during and after their control to more than 530,000 Arab Palestinians.

2. The Ottoman refer to the land as Palestine. In fact, the history of the land based on ancient maps from Ptolemy to Herodotus, Ovid to Avicenna, and commentaries from Einstein to Avi Shlaim refers to the land pre 1948 as Palestine.

Thus, Not only map 1 shows Palestine as the name of the country, but also shows the background of its landowners. They are not mostly absentee landlords as established in its inquest. They are mostly owned by Arab Palestinians.

On the Jordanian and Egyptian controlled lands. Egypt never annexed Gaza, it only went under military control. Militarry occupation, in international law, is defined by a temporary control of power without any claim for permanent sovereignty. This, the land may be controlled by Egypt, ownership is still Palestinian. An excellent case is Indonesia's control over Timor Timur. The Indonesians didn't annex the country but simply rule it by military power. It's lands were still owned by Timorese, and upon relinquish of control Timor Leste, the independent state was born, complete with its Timorese owned lands that never could exchange hands.

Jordan did annex West Bank and in doing so had sovereign rights. However, this sovereign rights was only recognised by Pakistan and the United Kingdom. Furthermore, Jordan was itself a new nation and 70% of its populations are Palestinian by reference. The West Bank is Palestine before, Palestinian during and Palestine after.

Finally, on your assertions of handing over occupied land back to Palestine. You do know that the UNSC and US State Department both do not recognise these occupied lands as owned or controlled by Israel, right? Because they are - as words used by these agencies - illegal, a flagrant violation of international laws as well as a violation of the Geneva Convention, and not to mention based on commentaries of prominent individuals as human rights violations and a possible war crime, making this token gesture a moot point.

 

[cucumberman]

Nobody is saying that but why are Isreal never challenged when it is committing some of the most horrific crimes to humanity? I have nothing against Isreal or its people but the Isreal government is a nasty vile group of legitimised terrorist group. The foot soldiers are just that its the government pumping out the propaganda that legitimises the shoot first ask questions later policy

Since you brought this categorisation up maybe a reminisce back in time on the activities of the Irgun, Haganah, Stern Gang and the Plan D is timely.

Haganah - https://www.britannica.com/topic/Haganah
Irgun - https://www.britannica.com/topic/Irgun-Zvai-Leumi
Stern Gang - https://www.britannica.com/topic/Stern-Gang

Plan D - http://www.1948.org.uk/plan-dalet-and-the-nakba/