Jesus offside goal vs West Ham - Explanation in the Mail

[bewildered]

not "sender" chips.
chips to be sensed, like the one in the ball sensed by the goal line sensors, being a row of sensors down each touchline, if they can be hidden in the posts, they can be setup nondescript i would imagine.
no mention of cameras i can find anywhere regarding this.
i would think the technology for something like this would be rather simple for tech's, the problem most certainly would be cost and implementation, and even more-so selling the idea to the powers that be at every level
and do i think its a good idea? i dont know if what we saw against spurs was any indication of how much "better" technology has made the game so far. not arsed it started out as a semi joke anyways, but really there is nothing that cant be done regarding this, its just choosing to do it or not.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goal-line_technology

Mate, goal line tech is high speed cameras as I’ve described... Offside etc uses cameras too but there are more variables and the final decision is subjective and human. This has been covered in the thread but you don’t seem to understand it. Sorry about that, don't believe everything that you read on wikipedia...

 

[OccupiedPalestineBlues]

Can you let me know what these ‘signal senders’ are mate? And what technique would be used for the position calculation? Sorry but what you are describing is a fantasy. There are loads of reasons why having equipment in the ball, boots etc is unrealistic. The current tech can work, but there are limitations with its current use model for VAR.

Only a fantasy in your naive bonce.

In my working life I was involved in the installation and commissioning of monitoring & security systems whereby people or machinery positions are monitored via a mat of below floor or buried conductors. The same systems are used for controlling the positions of robots in, as example, huge central car part warehouses. Their positions are accurate to the centimetre in all aspects as they need to be able to select and remove any of thousands of components from miles of racking systems up to 10 metres high.
These systems are not tomorrow’s world, they’re in use here in the U.K. and have been for decades. I was involved in one such system installed in a General Motors Central European warehouse in Milton Keynes nearly 40 years ago!
I’d explain to you how the senders positions are cross located in the fixed fields of low grade magnetic flux, such that their locations are always known, but I can see that this very simple and well established technology might seem like demons at work to a Luddite.

The security systems we installed in the perimeters of government installations and estates didn’t even need senders - just 2 buried cables could notify if something as small as a rabbit passed a perimeter and be exact in the positioning, though they were set to only register creatures badger / small deer sized and above. In a factory there was always a grid pattern of hidden cabling and senders were required (miniature transponders giving call and response several times a second) because positions needed to be accurate in all aspects so that robots weighing tonnes could be system controlled to maintain tight clearances while moving quickly.

 

[bewildered]

Only a fantasy in your naive bonce.

In my working life I was involved in the installation and commissioning of monitoring & security systems whereby people or machinery positions are monitored via a mat of below floor or buried conductors. The same systems are used for controlling the positions of robots in, as example, huge central car part warehouses. Their positions are accurate to the centimetre in all aspects as they need to be able to select and remove any of thousands of components from miles of racking systems up to 10 metres high.
These systems are not tomorrow’s world, they’re in use here in the U.K. and have been for decades. I was involved in one such system installed in a General Motors Central European warehouse in Milton Keynes nearly 40 years ago!
I’d explain to you how the senders positions are cross located in the fixed fields of low grade magnetic flux, such that their locations are always known, but I can see that this very simple and well established technology might seem like demons at work to a Luddite.

The security systems we installed in the perimeters of government installations and estates didn’t even need senders - just 2 buried cables could notify if something as small as a rabbit passed a perimeter and be exact in the positioning, though they were set to only register creatures badger / small deer sized and above. In a factory there was always a grid pattern of hidden cabling and senders were required (miniature transponders giving call and response several times a second) because positions needed to be accurate in all aspects so that robots weighing tonnes could be system controlled to maintain tight clearances while moving quickly.

I dont want to get into a slanging match with you about this but you may install and commision things but I design optical and radio frequency imaging technology and systems including ones that analyse position, depth, density response to RF stimulous etc, I'm the exact opposite of a luddite. I'm fully aware of the type stuff you're on about but I can tell you with certainty that those technologies will not work in the football application. There are many technical reasons such as power requirements, weight, stability of position within the tracked object etc. The reason that imaging technology is used in VAR is because the type of things you're talking about simply wont work and imaging is the most appropriate technology. No need to insult me, but you're just wrong I'm afraid.

 

[Fame Monster]

Great explanation from the Mail but utterly ridiculous that no-one has cottoned onto the huge flaws in the system.

If VAR is going to be used for anything, it should not be for reviewing goals and offside decisions because it's killing the passion of celebrating whilst still being largely subjective.

There's an argument to use it for red cards or penalty decisions at most but the way it's been used so far, I'd just bin it off altogether because the decisions don't seem to improve.

 

[bewildered]

Great explanation from the Mail but utterly ridiculous that no-one has cottoned onto the huge flaws in the system.

If VAR is going to be used for anything, it should not be for reviewing goals and offside decisions because it's killing the passion of celebrating whilst still being largely subjective.

There's an argument to use it for red cards or penalty decisions at most but the way it's been used so far, I'd just bin it off altogether because the decisions don't seem to improve.

I totally agree, I'm satisfied that the Goal Line Technology is working and that it is being used correctly. It has made those decisions a matter of act.

There is also no reason at all in my opinion that a 2nd or 3rd referee can be in the stadium watching the many available angles available from the broadcast feeds to intervene and assist the referee if he's missed something or made a mistake.

The real problem is this idea that offside is now a definitive precise decision whith a 100& accurate system in place, it is not.

Scrap it all apart from the GLT and lets get back to letting referees run the game, warts and all.

 

[OccupiedPalestineBlues]

I dont want to get into a slanging match with you about this but you may install and commision things but I design optical and radio frequency imaging technology and systems including ones that analyse position, depth, density response to RF stimulous etc, I'm the exact opposite of a luddite. I'm fully aware of the type stuff you're on about but I can tell you with certainty that those technologies will not work in the football application. There are many technical reasons such as power requirements, weight, stability of position within the tracked object etc. The reason that imaging technology is used in VAR is because the type of things you're talking about simply wont work and imaging is the most appropriate technology. No need to insult me, but you're just wrong I'm afraid.

I’m not wrong but I don’t come on here to get into one of those tiresome arguments, that you see persisting in some threads, so I’m happy to agree to differ.

 

[bewildered]

I’m not wrong but I don’t come on here to get into one of those tiresome arguments, that you see persisting in some threads, so I’m happy to agree to differ.

Agreed, all the best mate

 

[mikemcfc]

Mate, goal line tech is high speed cameras as I’ve described... Offside etc uses cameras too but there are more variables and the final decision is subjective and human. This has been covered in the thread but you don’t seem to understand it. Sorry about that, don't believe everything that you read on wikipedia...

don't assume what i understand, and don't tell me what to believe. hawk-eye system is cameras, used in prem, goalref system is passive sensors trialed elsewhere, that is the technology i was referring, thanks.

 

[bewildered]

I don’t really know what you’re arguing about.

The goal ref system (electromagnetic) was trialed in 2012 but wasn’t selected. The de-facto standard is the imaging based Hawkeye system as used in the PL which is what I said in the first place. The wiki article describes the electromagnetic Goalref system which wasn’t selected for the PL hence my comment on the reliability of Wikipedia.

My original point stands but I’ll qualify it with... “in the Premier League” if that helps

There’s a couple of decent references about this

https://www.premierleague.com/news/60519

http://www.physics.org/article-questions.asp?id=125

https://www.hawkeyeinnovations.com/products/ball-tracking/goal-line-technology

 

[mikemcfc]

I don’t really know what you’re arguing about.

The goal ref system (electromagnetic) was trialed in 2012 but wasn’t selected. The de-facto standard is the imaging based Hawkeye system as used in the PL which is what I said in the first place. The wiki article describes the electromagnetic Goalref system which wasn’t selected for the PL hence my comment on the reliability of Wikipedia.

My original point stands but I’ll qualify it with... “in the Premier League” if that helps

There’s a couple of decent references about this

https://www.premierleague.com/news/60519

http://www.physics.org/article-questions.asp?id=125

https://www.hawkeyeinnovations.com/products/ball-tracking/goal-line-technology

pls. read more carefully, my last post said that hawkeye was used in the Prem. the other system was used in Netherlands and a club world cup.
my point is it's doable for the other system to do offsides, and more accurate as the position of the sensors are absolute, no frame rate variation, or human interpretation.
feasible? that's a different debate.
other than that I don't care mate.