Joe Hart (joined Torino on season long loan - Official)

[Robinho's Subbuteo]

Surely, the lack of options says quite a bit.

If a genuine WC player was placed on the open market, there would be many takers I would suspect, irrespective of the current incumbent

A very good point.

 

[mosssideblue]

It's surprised me too. I have heard claims that he has struggled with training ground drills moving the ball from one foot to the other, but is that true? I don't know. Maybe he knows that he can get one of the Barca keepers and knowing that he has decided to get them in.

I think it is much simpler. Pep sees Joe as a weakness (either on or off the pitch) and doesn't believe he can implement his style with him.

 

[Rammy Blue]

OK

I'll go on the record now. I think Joe is a poor goalkeeper.

And I can back that up with proven statistics. We all know he has a glaring weakness on his bottom left hand side. Something that should have been eradicated a long time ago for a keeper playing at the level he has been.

His distribution is horrific. Even his long kicking, which is the British way, is poor. This is the main reason.

He also punches crosses/corners he should be collecting. Far too often.

Now, he's one of the best one on one shot stoppers I have ever seen, and I'm not going to take that away from him, but it's clouding people's judgement and making a section of city fans believe he's a world class keeper. He isn't. Never has been.

When he has a good day he's quality, Messi alluded to this as did Suarez.

However as a whole package it's never been good enough.

The non footballing reasons have been exhausted on here but I think there is a decent argument for the football side if one was required.

He's served a lot of years here so you could argue about the morality of it all and whilst I don't usually relate money to footballers (we are all human ), he's not done too badly out of us, has he?

Agree 100%

Edit......although I wouldn't use the word "poor", I'd say "good but not great"

 

[Akiva]

I think it is much simpler. Pep sees Joe as a weakness (either on or off the pitch) and doesn't believe he can implement his style with him.

It's really this simple. Pep isn't interested in statistics (see Pep Confidential for more on this) but in who can impliment his game, or at least show a willingness to try to.

Every single player in Pep's squad needs to be on the same page for it to work, goalkeeper included. There is no room in Manchester City's starting XI for a player unwilling to adapt to Pep's style, no matter who that player is.

 

[nj1894]

My take on it is JH should take it as a challenge and stay and learn and win his place back, hes got 4 years on Bravo

 

[BlueMoonRisin’]

I really don't get how some blues keep deluding themselves in defence of Joe with "England number one". He's England's number one because of the piss poor competition he's had unlike being number one on rock solid merit. I'm old enough to have seen big Joe Corrigan play for us. Big Joe got better with age but was still 3rd choice keeper behind Clemence and Shilton respectively.

Joe Hart has no such competition threatening his England place, and has hardly had any whilst playing for us until now.

Imho, Joe is not getting any better for us or for England sadly.

 

[Marvin]

I think it is much simpler. Pep sees Joe as a weakness (either on or off the pitch) and doesn't believe he can implement his style with him.

He prefers Bravo for the next 2-3 years and it's his job to produce the best City team. That's the main thing. The reasons given, difficulty in adapting to the passing around the back strikes me as odd, but why would Guardiola make it up. Hart clearly falls down somewhere in Guardiola's estimation. City come first although I am sorry that Joe wont be part of it.

 

[Corky]

I really don't get how some blues keep deluding themselves in defence of Joe with "England number one". He's England's number one because of the piss poor competition he's had over being number one on rock solid. I'm old enough to have seen big Joe Corrigan play for us. Big Joe got better with age but was still 3rd choice keeper behind Clemence and Shelton respectively.

Joe Hart has no such competition threatening his England place, and has hardly had any whilst playing for us until now.

Imho, Joe is not getting any better for us or for England sadly.

Joe beat of 3 international keepers to get his place at City, one played against us yesterday, one is the #1 for Sweden and the other the #1 for Denmark and won the league last year.

 

[PragueBlue]

I didn't say Joe's a better keeper. I'm merely making the point the point that his international clean sheet ratio is better and behind a vastly inferior defence and midfield.

The problem with stats is that they can be twisted to suit any viewpoint really as you have done. You can't use the clean sheet stat to show what a good keeper Hart is and then say the England defence is inferior. Clean sheets are not just a reflection of the goal keeper but the whole defence (and the whole team). So if England's defence keeps more clean sheets than Germany's, then England's defence clearly isn't inferior but in fact is superior according to those stats. So your post contradicts itself a bit there.

Also Germany frequently go further in tournaments than England and usually the further you go, the better quality of team you meet and obviously you're going to keep less clean sheets against better teams. If you play 3 or 4 weak/average sides before getting knocked out, you're likely to have a better clean sheet record that if you play 3 or 4 weak/average sides and then 3 or 4 top sides in the later stages of the competition.

Most importantly though, clean sheets can only really tell you about the quality of the defence of a team and the goalkeeper's shot stopping ability. Nowadays, goalkeepers are judged in many other areas such as handling and distribution and it is those areas where Hart is vastly inferior to Neuer. It is supposedly because of Hart's weaknesses in those areas (not his shot stopping) that Guardiola is looking to replace him.

 

[BlueMoonRisin’]

He prefers Bravo for the next 2-3 years and it's his job to produce the best City team. That's the main thing. The reasons given, difficulty in adapting to the passing around the back strikes me as odd, but why would Guardiola make it up. Hart clearly falls down somewhere in Guardiola's estimation. City come first although I am sorry that Joe wont be part of it.

I'm sorry too Marvin, I really would like Joe to be given a chance to stay and redeem himself under Pep but it's not going to happen. When we all take off our blue tinted specs of biasedness through our natural affinity and endearment towards Joe (we've built up over the last 10 years), then we will all realise that he is not good enough a keeper for pep in the cold light of day. Joe is a good keeper but he has not transpired to become world class that he should of been by this stage of his career unfortunately.